Part P advice?

[Tim10]

I’ve recently carried out a lot of replacement/remedial work on our 38 year old electrical installation. I have:

Replaced the old brown Wylex Consumer Unit for new Square D unit incorporating MCB’s/RCD.

The power supply to the garage was tapped into the old 30A cooker circuit, I suspect because the 4 way Wylex board was full, and the previous owners didn’t want the expense of upgrading. The cooker was moved to the other side of the kitchen and put onto ring circuit when we had the kitchen replaced in 1985. The kitchen fitter replaced the cooker control unit with a standard 2 gang socket for fridge/boiler, so the same 30A fuse protected this and the garage. I put garage onto its own 32A breaker, and converted the supply to the 2 gang socket into 16A radial circuit for the fridge/boiler.

The kitchen fitter spurred off the ring using a junction box under the kitchen to supply BOTH a double socket for the electric cooker/ignition for gas hob and a single socket for the extractor on the same spur. The double socket was cracked and slightly scorched around the live socket hole where the cooker was plugged in. He used a junction box to break into the ring rated at 10-15A, stripped back the sheathing so far so that the red and black wires were hanging way out of the junction box, and connected the earths by just twisting them together with a pair of pliers on the OUTSIDE of the junction box. On opening the junction box I found that the undersized terminals were starting to corrode, and around half of the 7 strands of the conductors of the ring cable (7/.026 imperial cable) were broken severely de-rating the cable. This could have been a potential fire hazard!! I replaced this junction box with a 30A junction box, cut back and re-stripped the cables so all was terminated correctly in the new junction box. I removed the double socket supplying the cooker/ignition so that this spur now supplies only the single socket for the extractor, and ran a new dedicated cooker circuit from a 16A breaker (small cooker) for the cooker and ignition.

Replaced the main equipotential bonding with 10mm earth to incoming gas and water services, and replaced the main earthing conductor for 16mm. Both were previously 7/.044 (6mm). I also added supplementary bonding in the bathroom, which was previously non-existent.

I tested the entire installation for IR, EFLI, PSC, RCD trip time and all the other tests asked for in the 16th edition, all with satisfactory results.

Shortly after completing the work, I discovered this site and started reading about part p and notifiable work. I didn’t notify any of this work because despite from being introduced a year and a half ago, I had absolutely no idea that part p existed, great publicity campaign!!! Although I’m not a fully qualified electrician, I did part of an electrical installation apprenticeship when I left school (as far as C&G 236 pt1) so have done this kind of work many times before in the past (albeit under supervision at work/college) and didn’t at any time feel that I was out of my depth or didn’t fully understand what I was doing. It’s been a few years since I’ve done anything similar, so it was just a case of digging out my copies of the 16th edition and OSG to revise/confirm the test values. I brought all the materials from a local electrical wholesaler which we frequented when I worked for the electrical contracting firm. I can understand the idea behind part p, which is a good idea if it helps to stop shoddy work like the kitchen fitter left, but in our case if I had have been aware of part p, the cost of this work could easily have doubled. This is my parent’s house, who paid for the work, and it took a lot of persuasion for them to shell out the £200 it cost for the materials. They certainly wouldn’t have paid out what it would have cost to have the work notified, so we’d still have had re-wirable fuses, no RCD protection, dangerous kitchen wiring, and I might not have been here to tell the tale because yesterday I accidentally dropped a live extension lead connector into our flooded basement, which I was standing in at the time and would have fished it out with my bare hands (I didn’t realise there was a connector under the water!). But as the work’s been done, it instantly tripped the RCD when the cable splashed into the water…

I’m inclined to leave things as they are as I’m certain that the work I’ve done is fine and has tested out OK. I don’t think it’s fair to expect my parents to shell out another few hundred pounds to have someone from building control do the same set of tests that I’ve already done. If this had been 2 years ago, there would have been no problems with building control. We have no intention of moving house in the foreseeable future (I understand this can cause problems) and if we ever do, we can cross that bridge when we come to it. The house will probably be in need of a full re-wire by then anyway. I myself am glad I was able to do the work as I dread to think the consequences if I’d have grabbed hold of that connector in a flooded confined space, and for peace of mind that me and my family will be protected for any future similar hazards. I wouldn’t want to go back to the old system!

Any comments/suggestions/advice?

Tim

 

[dingbat]

Any comments/suggestions/advice?

Hmm. Where to start?

Have you certified any of this work?
Do you realise that BS 7671 requires certification?
Who checks whether your memory of C & G 2360 is intact?
Is your test gear in calibration?
What colour is your regs book? (green? Yellow? Red? Blue? Brown?) I.e. how up to date are you, really?
Can you categorically state that everything is up to scratch, or are you relying on it being more or less okay?
Are your parents okay about breaking the law insofar as they have not notified contolled works under the Building Regulations?
It sounds very much as if their house is already in need of a full rewire.
Would you have done the same if gas was involved?

All may indeed be well, but how qualified (in every sense) are you to make that judgement?

 

[Tim10]

Hmm. Where to start?

Have you certified any of this work?
Do you realise that BS 7671 requires certification?

I filled out an inspection certificate by means of recording the test results/dates etc (an example is in the OSG) I later downloaded a copy of the certificate. I'm certain that all the results/recording is correct (as I mentioned yesterday, I've done this many times before). The only thing I'm not, is qualified under part p, which I was unaware of at the time.

Who checks whether your memory of C & G 2360 is intact?

This is something I had to revise/review myself to confirm issues such as cable sizes (which I had remembered) and test values (which I'd forgotten) and all the other points such as cable routing etc.

Is your test gear in calibration?

Yes, the test gear is new and has a current calibration certificate.

What colour is your regs book? (green? Yellow? Red? Blue? Brown?) I.e. how up to date are you, really?

It's the red one, 16th edition iss1 published in 1991, so I have to admit I'm not really up to date. Since doing the work, and discovering about the introduction of part p, I've looked into the amendments. For the work that I carried out, part p and the wiring colours are the main changes. All the work was in the new colours as supplied by the wholesaler.

Can you categorically state that everything is up to scratch, or are you relying on it being more or less okay?

This house was wired in the days of 14th edition, so there's many things that aren't up to current regs, although they're by no means immediately dangerous. The new work that I have carried out I ensured was carried out to a higher standard than was expected at work. The only way to bring everything completely up to scratch would be a complete rewire, which I've advise should be done in the not too distant future.

Are your parents okay about breaking the law insofar as they have not notified contolled works under the Building Regulations?

It's me who's more concerned about this, afterall, it was me that did the work. People I've asked have advised me not to say anything, but they don't know much about electrics which is why I'm asking for advise on here.

It sounds very much as if their house is already in need of a full rewire.

This is what I've advised will be needed at the first opportunity, ie when we get around to decorating again. But for the time being all the test results were well within tolerance, and all major problems that I've found have been fixed.

Would you have done the same if gas was involved?

Absolutely not! We have a relative who's CORGI registered who does all our gas work.

Tim

 

[ebee]

You could have a word with LABC and explain the situation and your innocent mistake, they won`t take you to tsask for that, but it would cost and you might get lumbered with having to correct any deviations.
That`s the correct way.
Or you could say nowt and then realise it was done prior Jan 1st 2005 (safely I hope).
In either event a word with a friendly suitably competent person to look over your work would be a good start.

I sometimes think Part P must come under the official secrets act

 

[Tim10]

Thanks for the reply.

The only main deviation that I'm really not happy about was, for the time being, I had no option but to install the cooker control unit for the new cooker circuit inside the ajoining cupboard. Although this is no worse than it was before, the double socket the cooker used to be plugged into was in the same cupboard, and as I installed it right at the front of the cupboard where everyone knows where it is and could isolate it within a second or 2, there should be a means of isolation above the worktop. It wasn't possible to do this at the time because it would have meant stripping off some of the tiles and ruining the decoration and possibly damaging the worktop while chasing out. We're due to have the kitchen replaced next year, so I've told my parents that a control unit must be installed above the worktop when the kitchen is renovated.

So what I'm inclined to do is leave things for now, then see if I can get things done officially when we have the kitchen done. I don't want to get LABC involved now because I don't want to pay twice, and I don't want to risk being told I must install a cooker control unit above the worktop, so would have to tile the kitchen, twice!

I'd like to get everything sorted, but as efficiently as possible with the minimum of hasstle.

Tim

 

[splutter]

If this had been 2 years ago, there would have been no problems with building control. We have no intention of moving house in the foreseeable future (I understand this can cause problems) and if we ever do, we can cross that bridge when we come to it.
Tim

Unfortunately, it's always a question of "worst case scenario" if nothing goes wrong, then everyone is happy. Suppose there was a fire caused by an electical fault, sufficient to need a very large insurance claim but small enough to leave all the evidence of your work. Fire investigation would find uncertified work, and the insurance may not pay out. Old folks homeless and pennyless?

Of course, this won't happen... and besides it's safer now anyway. My "advice" would always be - go the extra mile.

 

[Tim10]

I'm tending towards the idea of doing all the wiring myself when we renovate the kitchen, that way I know it'll be done properly and safely, unlike the last time we had the kitchen done (although I know a repeat of that is unlikely!) and notifying LABC when I do it, telling them that all the work that I've already done, I'm about to do.

Do they do any checks prior to work commencing?

The other option is to notify LABC when I wire the kitchen, and admit honestly "And I did all this last year, but at the time din't realise I had to notify".

Which of these would be the best idea?

Tim

 

[securespark]

Spur from a spur is not allowable unless from the load terminals of a fused spur.

 

[Tim10]

Spur from a spur is not allowable unless from the load terminals of a fused spur.

That's why I made sure I removed one of the spurs, so the spur now only supplies one single socket for the extractor. What worried me more than this was how the undersized junction box breaking into the ring was wired. Very untidy to have unsheathed cables protrouding from the junction box, even worse to twist the earths together with a pair of pliers around the outside instead of terminating them properly inside, and worse still to break some of the main ring conductor strands derating the cable! All this was done by a kitchen fitter 21 years ago, and is now all fixed. If I remember rightly, we had someone out to look at the kitchen when the electronic ignition for the gas hob stopped working a few months after having it installed. The electrician who came to fix it under guarantee (someone different) told us it stopped working because the fitter had routed the cables to the ignition wrongly and they'd melted (I can't remember the exact story, it was a long time ago). I only recently discovered what he'd done under the kitchen with the junction box. I immediately replaced the 10-15A junction box with a 30 amp junction box and re-stripped bacl the cables and termenated them correctly. I'd already removed the 2nd spur.

I find it shocking how a reputable local kitchen firm could contract fitting work to someone who would have such a blatent dis-regard for electrical safety. The de-rated ring cable and undersized terminals of the junction box that he used could potentially have overheated under heavy load, and as this was under the kitchen floor, we wouldn't have known until it was too late. The same guy did all the gas work as well, but we've since had this checked and all is OK.

Who knows how many other kitchens have bodged wiring or worse thanks to Mr Jack Of All Trades?

Tim