part p

[mapj1]

That is exactly how its supposed to work. BUT, most councils don't have a tame electrician in the building control dept, and either set their charges high, so they can subcontract their reponsibility to a third party inspector, or just say ' you can't do it - you must get a member of a self cert scheme to do it' which is strictly a deriliction of duty, but not an uncommon one.
I have a just received (another) letter from the ODPM, which glancingly covers this very topic, which if I get the time, and/or my daughter keeps me awake again, I may type in fully, but words like
"statutory duty to carry out building control functions" and "where the local authority does not posses the expertise, it will need to employ someone to act on its behalf" do appear at that point.
However, he also notes that its all new and it may need a bit of settling in.
I'm writing to my MP again soon though. If you get no sense, then I suggest you do the same. -Name of local MP, house of commons West Minster. Copy to ODPM.
Let us know how it goes.

 

[ban-all-sheds]

Well thanks both, that's a lot clearer now. Though BAS seems to be suggesting it's not quite as simple as that.

It's not, in practice.

If, hypothetically, you were planning to wire an extension, you would, hypothetically, check on your local authority's website for what their interpretation of their responsibilities are (possibly posting them here), so that you could prepare yourself for any arguments that you need to have with them, depending on their attitude.

 

[keyplayer]

Ban, believe me, my scenario is hypothetical, and even if it weren't I now live on an independent British isle where not even the window regs have yet been implemented, never mind part P. My interest in this is purely down to being anti pointless regulation. Now, I've had personal experience of the window regs implementation in that I've had BCO inspections carried out on my behalf by the council, at 130 odd quid a time, and quite frankly said inspections were an absolute joke. ie Money for nothing. I would be quite worried if the standard for part P was the same, and lets face it, it's not the government who initiates the ideas for these industry regs, they are heavily lobbied by the relevant industries, whose sole interest is not safety, but monopolistic profit.

 

[SwindonSpark]

This is how my LABC is coping so far: -

http://www.swindon.gov.uk/environment/environment-bchome/environment-bcnews.htm

They're waiting for clarification from the ODPM!

 

[keyplayer]

And are there such things as qualifications for kitchen fitter and bathroom fitter? Not that I know of, and I've fitted plenty of both. Curiouser and curioser......

 

[ban-all-sheds]

No but a kitchen or bathroom fitter can go on a 4-week course and emerge as a qualified electrician....

 

[Big_Spark]

No but a kitchen or bathroom fitter can go on a 4-week course and emerge as a qualified electrician....

Not strictly true Ban, thankfully, but I see the point your making...

The whole system is FUBAR...

 

[ban-all-sheds]

Ah - but note I said qualified, not competent.

See the first package on this website http://www.techniquetraining.co.uk/electrical.htm

20 days for:

Module 1 - Basic Electrical Generic Module
Module 2 - Domestic Electrical Part 1:- Domestic Wiring Circuits
City & Guilds 2381- 16th Edition Wiring Regulations
City & Guilds 2377 002 - Portable Appliance Testing
City & Guilds 2391- Inspection & Testing
EAL Domestic Electrical Installer Qualification

which is all (more, in fact) than is required to be declared officially qualified and Competent.....

 

[keyplayer]

Wow, and a free tool kit. Incidentally, to join FENSA and therefore qualify to self certify window installations, all you need is two referees, ie happy customers, and 250 odd quid a year in fees. Easily blagged, but begs the question, are these things being properly thought out, if at all?

 

[mapj1]

The governemnts own figures suggest that they are aware of about 40% of all notifiable window installations are neither FENSA installer fitted, nor BCO inspected. As such the scheme is hailed a roaring success.
If part P is similar in its 'success' we have little to fear from ignoring it.
Local authorites will (should) investigate when a complaint has been made, and can insist on opening work for inspection, and if such an inspection finds fault, insist on remedial work at the cost of the housholder. Only if this is not done 'in reasonable time' is the fines route used. If the work is up to scratch in the first place, no one will complain, so the whole thing works just fine.
There is also the limitation that if the investigation is not started within 1 year of completion of the defective work, they may not insist on corrective action, or any of the following consequences.
the 1 year limitation comes from the building control manual
here http://www.odpm.gov.uk/stellent/groups/odpm_buildreg/documents/page/odpm_breg_br1004.pdf
page 19 quoting

Contravention of the technical
requirements
2.13 If during the course of the building work,
or within a year of completion, the local
authority considers that your work contravenes
any requirement of the Regulations it may
serve a notice (under section 36 of the Building

Act) requiring you to take down or alter the
work within 28 days. If you disagree with the
views of the local authority you may notify the
it that you propose to obtain an independent
expert report under section 37, in which case
the period is extended to 70 days. The local
authority may withdraw the notice in the light
of the report, but if it does not you may appeal
to the magistrate’s court under section 40. It
should be noted that if you use the approved
inspector system, the local authority cannot
give a section 36 notice in relation to any work
described in an initial notice, so long as it
remains in force, or in a final certificate which
has been accepted.

 

[ban-all-sheds]

No but a kitchen or bathroom fitter can go on a 4-week course and emerge as a qualified electrician....

Not strictly true Ban, thankfully, but I see the point your making...

The whole system is FUBAR...

And having become an instant electrician, you can buy an instant rewiring kit...

http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&category=57215&item=5969831366&rd=1

 

[pipme]

Bath and NE Somerset implementation - or not.
See sect.2 (b) ..The word 'Inspector' has been slipped into this paragraph .. I wonder ?
BANEs Link

P

 

[keyplayer]

There is also the limitation that if the investigation is not started within 1 year of completion of the defective work, they may not insist on corrective action, or any of the following consequences. ]

Ok, I'm assuming this is only the case if the LBCO has been informed of the proposed works in advance of commencement. Otherwise, the whole things a nonsense, surely?

 

[Stoday]

I've had BCO inspections carried out on my behalf by the council, at 130 odd quid a time, and quite frankly said inspections were an absolute joke.

Of course, you'll pay up the £130 to stay within the law. Just check out the penalties if you don't do so. They are in this booklet (note the screwdriver):

Here's what's said in the booklet:

What will happen if I do not follow the Building Regulations?
The electrical installation might not be safe.
You will have no record of the work done.
You may have difficulty selling your home if you do not have the right electrical safety certificates.
Your local authority’s Building Control Department may insist that you put right faulty work.

 

[ban-all-sheds]

Bath and NE Somerset implementation - or not.
See sect.2 (b) ..The word 'Inspector' has been slipped into this paragraph .. I wonder ?
BANEs Link

P

I guess the $64,000 Q is are they allowed to do that?

What if you submit your building notice, your £58.75, and say "That's it - I've done what that law says and I've paid your fee. Get on with it"