Party wall act and footing depth

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Hi,

i'm planning an extension on my mid terrace house at the rear of the property. The plan is for it to be the full width of the property, or as near as.

On one side there is a wooden fence (mine) which can be moved and no issues with neighbours.

The other side is a little more awkward, both neighbours and scenario and my budget means I would like to avoid costly party wall agreements as best as possible.

The existing party wall fence (garden wall, single block) lies fairly smack on to the physical centre line of the internal party wall. On the opposite side of this wall, the neighbour has a conservatory. I would like to build as close to this wall as possible to maximise new space.

My main question is regarding the footing depth and the need to apply the party wall act if the new footing go below these. The current build is a 1974 ex council house, I think built by wimpey. Does anybody know what depth these are likely to be and if I should be digging below these to satisfy the building inspection ( 900mm deep and 600mm wide I am led to believe?

I am hoping to build 150mm off this existing party wall fence to avoid any issues with un pinning the existing wall (1000mm high) is this possible from a building point of view? From what I have read it is possible to build a wall from the inside out, but not sure if the limited gap between outside face of new wall and existing wall (150mm) would be enough room to physically build it?

Any help or advise much appreciated

Sam
 
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The Party Wall Act will apply for any excavations within 3m of your neighbour's foundations/boundary, so you will need to comply with the requirements of the Act accordingly. This is not complicated if they have no objections, so worth having "a chat".
 
Hi,

Thanks for the reply.

The 'chat' is what I am worried about. We have a long list of disputes under our belts, most caused by them seemingly not being able to be reasonable.

The last dispute was due to one of my vans being parked about 4 inches across their drive for 2 hours whilst the gearbox had issues. This was despite the fact they could still easily get on to the drive and I wasn't causing an obstruction whatsoever. Funnily enough they normally don't put the car on the drive until late at night, but at this precise moment they felt the need to park on the drive....

I was under the impression that if the excavation didn't go beyond the existing footing depth it did not require a PWA agreement? Am I wrong?

I have no doubt that they will refuse to sign anything which will mean I will be unable to extend due to legal fee costs.
 
With regards the 3m-rule (Notice of Adjacent Excavation), you're not wrong - but it would be unusual if your excavation failed to drop below your neighbour's footings. Remember you normally have to excavate considerably further than your intended FFL, so that you can provide the appropriate build-ups.

The Party Wall Act exists precisely so that you CAN do works within the provisions of the act, without recourse to legal proceedings. Even if you wind up paying fees for your surveyor, your neighbour's surveyor, AND a 3rd party surveyor, these fees have to be 'reasonable'. I forget what that means exactly but I'd be surprised if it amounted to more than £2000 - although I'd budget for £3000.

You could do worse than drop round there with a post Christmas bottle of port.
 
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It's all guesswork until you know your ground conditions. If you are on clay the normal minimum is 900mm but that's just a minimum. If your house found turns out to be deeper than that then you only need match it and PWA won't apply. My advice is do a trial dig and check your actual ground conditions before you start shelling out for PW surveyors and serving notices that might not be necessary.

Building overhand in a 150mm gap is ok but how would you render it?
 
Hi,

Thanks again for replying.

With regards to the render, I was thinking along the lines of maybe a capping stone on the existing party wall fence to effectively block off the void? Not sure if that is a no no or not? If not, could you suggest an option?


Not sure on ground type, certainly not reddish colour, quite a bit of shillet type material in there.

Would your average builder be able to specify footing depth requirements or does it require more specialist needs?

I'm looking to carry out a lot of the work myself to save on costs. Block work and roof to be contracted, much of the rest I can do myself or call in some favours here and there.

Thanks for the help so far.
 
With regards to the render, I was thinking along the lines of maybe a capping stone on the existing party wall fence to effectively block off the void? Not sure if that is a no no or not? If not, could you suggest an option?
No problem leaving it face blockwork other than it would just look unfinished.

Not sure on ground type, certainly not reddish colour, quite a bit of shillet type material in there.
If the rock bed is a decent bearing you'll most likely find the extension will be on the same level as the existing.

Would your average builder be able to specify footing depth requirements or does it require more specialist needs?
For standard foundations your builder should go to wherever he thinks is about right and then agree it with building inspector. If BI wants more depth they will say so and then re-inspect. If it is a non standard foundation you will need SE design.

I'm looking to carry out a lot of the work myself to save on costs. Block work and roof to be contracted, much of the rest I can do myself or call in some favours here and there.
Do the foundation yourself. Hire a man with a machine to do the digging for about £200 per day. They also usually know what they are doing so will be able to guide you on depth. You then just take care of moving the muck.
 
Thanks very much for your help.

Unfortunately, the footing will need digging by hand as you won't get a machine up the steps! Annoyingly I have a neighbour who is a machine driver also!
 
I forget what that means exactly but I'd be surprised if it amounted to more than £2000 - although I'd budget for £3000.

I wouldn't call that 'reasonable'.

PWA surveyors charge ridiculous sums for what amounts to reams of useless cut-and-paste waffle. It doesn't alter the fact that the owner is still liable for any damage caused. The whole process is just a money-making scheme for surveyors.

By way of contrast, a typical engineer's fee for calcs for a steel beam might be £200 - £300, and the work involved more complex than a PW award - and the consequences of failure far more serious.
 
I forget what that means exactly but I'd be surprised if it amounted to more than £2000 - although I'd budget for £3000.
I wouldn't call that 'reasonable'.
Made me smile as well. Two or three grand for a stupid rear extension is ridiculous. I don't do many (by choice) but I've just done one for a development of 2 houses with a value of about a million quid. My fee for notices and award was £600 and the other blokes fee for signing it was £395.
 
Coincidentally, I've just spoken with my neighbour who's gone through this process for a small, ground floor extension to her property in south London. She's had to shell out something like £4000 for surveyors' fees (hers, my landlord's, and the neighbour on the other side) as well as something for 'enjoyment' of an existing wall!
 
Yes, Unfortunately these kind of figures would make the whole project unviable. Mainly due to the restricted value the work would add to the property.

Personal circumstances mean I am unable to move (self employed) and as my family gets bigger we are quickly outgrowing the house.

On the flip side, if the footing depth does pose an issue, what's the likely effect in going ahead without giving the notice?
 
In theory, your neighbour can take out a high court injunction against you, effectively prohibiting you from carrying out the works, although in practice this is unlikely.

However, by failing to comply with the terms of the Act you effectively give your neighbour carte blanche to claim that any damage to *their* wall was caused by *your* works - the burden of proof will be on you regardless of the fact that the 'damage' may be pre-existing!

On the other hand, if you can bring your neighbour on board, and mutually agree upon a surveyor that can act for both you and your neighbour, then you will greatly reduce the costs.
 
However, by failing to comply with the terms of the Act you effectively give your neighbour carte blanche to claim that any damage to *their* wall was caused by *your* works - the burden of proof will be on you regardless of the fact that the 'damage' may be pre-existing!

Surely in that case the burden of proof would lie with the neighbour?

If the neighbour claims that damage to the wall was caused by the OP's work, then it would be up to the neighbour to prove the cause.

The OP would not be required to prove that he did not cause damage.
 
While there is little case law in this field what recent precedent there is has held a contrary view. See Roadrunner Properties v Dean 2003
 

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