Party Wall Agreement

[ianm75]

I live in a semi detached house and am trying to arrange the last few things before initiating a builder to start work on an extension for me.

One thing i have done is had a party wall agreement drawn up with the adjoining house at a cost of £600, unforurtunate but a necessity i was told.

The house to my other side is approx 5 metres away with the property dividing fence 2.5 metres so half way between.

My extension is going to mean foundations about 700mm from the fence line. I again was told i would need a party wall agreement with this neighbour too. I spoke to the neighbour about 6 months ago and they agreed to sign, i have drawn up the agreement from the template and now they seem to be dragging their heels.

My question is, do i need a party wall agreement really with them if my foundations will be about 700mm from the fence line and approx 3m from their house? I could really do without the hassle.

Thanks in advance

 

[freddiemercurystwin]

I don't think you do: http://www.communities.gov.uk/documents/planningandbuilding/pdf/133214.pdf see section 26. Are your foundations likely to be deeper than theirs? Out of interest, why are they draging their heels?

 

[ianm75]

thanks for the reply

I originally printed out the agreement and the neighbour said she was happy but the house is owned half by her and half by her mother so print off the same thing in both names and they would sign. I have now done this twice and no response and every time i try to speak to her shes out.

Her house is approx 1ft above mine as the roads on a gradient. I dont know how deep the foundations on a 1930's semi detached house are? The extension foundations have been set at 1m so if the house foundations are 2m then i dont think i would have a problem.

 

[ianm75]

Eventually got hold of my neighbour after 3 weeks by waiting in front garden aroun the time she comes home from work.

Basically it turns out the reason she has'nt signed is because she does'nt want it built because the extension will block he elderly mums view of the fields behind. the houses. He mum has lived at the house for 60 years with the same view. She also said that i have the luxury of moving in a few years and her mum does'nt based on her age.

I understand her point of view but i need the extension (only single storey and under permitted development 69cubic metres) so not massive to improve my quality of life.

Can i just go ahead and build? Does anyone think know how deep a 1930's semi detached houses foundation will go?

 

[freddiemercurystwin]

I think it unlikely that your neighbour’s foundations will go very deep but it’s difficult to say. There wasn’t much legislation back then. If your house was built at the same time you can dig down and find out that way. I expect someone else will be along to add their thoughts on that one.
With regard to your neighbour dragging their heels, make sure you definitely qualify under permitted development. If you do they'll have to live with it.
Ultimately if it turns out you do need it (and it sounds like you’d be naïve to not do it if you need to given the relationship that’s forming between you) if they refuse to co-operate you don’t actually need them see section 11 in the PDF.

 

[ajstoneservices]

I thought the "Party Wall Act" did not have to be an "agreement". my understanding of it is to allow a condition inspection prior to any work being carried out within 3-6m of the party wall. it was intended to protect both parties if a future claim of damage was made.

You have to serve a notice, that's it. That was the basis of the only notice I've given, it was before building my last extension our neighbours objected too, but couldn't stop us building.

 

[^woody^]

If a notice is served and there is no response, then a dispute is automatically deemed to exist and the relevant procedures to deal with this have to be followed.

It may be that a PW notice did not have to be served, but as one has been served, then it may be too late and the Act has to be followed and a Surveyor engaged to do some preliminary work .... to tell you that the Act does not apply!

Incidently, the notice should be served on both owners of the house

In reality/hindsight, it would be wise to assume that the adjacent property does not fall into the zone requiring notice under the PWA. But that may be too late now

The PWA can not be used to stop development which is lawful under other legislation (ie planning permission), nor can it be used to stop development contrary to any planning permission. Its only purpose is to ensure that building work is done properly and does not damage neighbouring property, and to grant access rights to do the work

What the building owner has to do, is weigh up the chances of a neighbour going to court to get an injunction to stop work if a PWA is not in place.

 

[Shytalkz]

Just to add to Woody's comment: there is no mechanism within the PWeA for dealing with a non-compliance in terms of the Act ie if you've served notice, they haven't responded (and a dispute has therefore arisen), but you've just got on and done the work anyhow. There *are* times when the Act is useful, but in the vast majority of cases, it's a money-wasting exercise, as it gives neighbours the opportunity (or so they perceive) to p*ss you about for reasons wholly unconnected with the purpose of the Act.

You can't rescind a notice once it's been served, but you can of course choose to ignore the rest of it from hereon in and let them go and get an injunction - which if it's just because of the view issues will be binned out of court at the high port.

Even if your new foundations are to go deeper than the existing ones, then unless you're running parallel with and close to their foundations, you are not likely to cause a problem.

 

[jeds]

Unless I'm missing something here you are saying your foundation is 3.2m from the neighbours house wall. (2.5m plus 700mm) Unless you plan to sink piles to a depth of 3.2m this puts you outside the 3m zone and the party wall act does not apply.

 

[Shytalkz]

Up to 3m face to face of foundations, it's to the same level or deeper; 3m to 6m is 45° line from outer face of neighbour's footing.

Technically, you can't rescind a notice once it's been issued. Not sure how that stands if the wrong (or a needless) one ie 3m instead of a 6m notice has been served though; although an AO's PWS could make you reissue the correct notice and start the process all over again.

If it was me, I'd be sorely tempted, knowing that their reasons for not signing have nothing to do with the PWeA, of ignoring them and just getting on with it. By the time they got - assuming that they even bothered - their act together and got an injunction, you'd be out of the ground and the reason for the injunction ie the foundations would have therefore be of no consequence - unless you caused damage to their building, which you'd be liable for, regardles of any PWeA requirements.

 

[chappers]

Ditto to what the wise man from the east has said above, i would just go ahead and as always make sure your builder is insured.

 

[Shytalkz]

...as always make sure your builder is insured.

Oh yes, a very important point. Ask to see receipts for premiums, so you know it's actually been paid and is active.

 

[^woody^]

Arggh the old chestnut.

A good uninsured builder or a crapp lazy insured one?

There is no correlation between insurance, the builder and the work done. Insurance will not help when the builder is not seen for days on end and then turns up and smudges all the brickwork and does roughcast plaster instead of skim - or even if he goes bust halfway through the job.

 

[chappers]

......but you will be covered when he knocks your house down.

 

[^woody^]

..... yes, wait a few years for the payout while the claim is made and fought.

Or

Just claim of your own house insurance - and let them chase the builder