Party wall or not

[Mikejf]

I have had a certificate of lawfulness approved for a single storey extension. The extension is 50mm away from my attached neighbour boundary and we have a jointly owned fence between us right on the boundary.

We sent them a party wall notice as we thought that was the correct thing to do but they are now saying they don't want the fence removed or disturbed and it must be protected with poly when the build is happening to keep it clean. They also said the builders must work from our side and not letting them on to their side. This will obviously make it very difficult and as the footings are right up the the fence, this way be hard to dig with the fence in place.

They have refused to agree to the notice.

My question is did we actually need a party wall notice and does my neighbour have the right to the above?

Many Thanks

Mike

 

[jeds]

If your foundation will end up below the level of the neighbours foundation then, technically, you do need a party wall agreement. If not and you stay entirely your side of the boundary - including foundations - then no, you do not need a party wall agreement. The matter of removing the fence depends who the fence belongs to. Fences are usually owned by one side or the other. They are acting as though the fence belongs to them - are you sure it does?

 

[Mikejf]

The neighbour currently has no extension so there are no footings parallel to the new extension, other than the post holes for the fence!. I suspect the footings for the extension will be as deep as the existing house.

The wall will be 50mm away from the boundary line but the foundations will be 25mm over the boundary (trench fill 450mm wide, 75mm either side of cavity wall).

The fence is jointly owned as we went halfs when it was erected.

Mike

 

[jeds]

See if you can use a narrower foundation. The load on a side wall of a rear extension is usually tiny. There's no roof load and no floor load so it's really just supporting itself. If the ground is good you could easily get away with 350mm or even the width of the wall.

PS. If you paid halves for the fence then do what you like with it. As long as it goes back in the same condition.

 

[Mikejf]

Thanks John although I'm sure I read somewhere that a notice is required if you are building near a boundary. I've seen a line of junction mentioned.

Still not sure what to do about the fence.

Mike

 

[jeds]

You only need a party wall agreement if you want to build on the line of junction or if your foundation is lower than the adjoining foundation. A wall 50mm your side of the boundary is not a party wall. Timber fences are not covered by the party wall act. The act mentions party fence walls but that's a wall not a fence. You paid half the cost of the fence so it's as much yours as theirs. The neighbour loses nothing by you removing and replacing it so if they choose to get themselves upset over nothing there's not much you can do about that is there. In the end you just have to do what's necessary so you might as well get on with it.

 

[ban-all-sheds]

You only need a party wall agreement if you want to build on the line of junction or if your foundation is lower than the adjoining foundation. A wall 50mm your side of the boundary is not a party wall.

Does the depth consideration not apply though because of the foundations of the rear & party walls?

 

[Mikejf]

Not sure but in this case the depth of the footings of the extension will probably be the same depth as the existing house.

 

[ban-all-sheds]

They have refused to agree to the notice.

They can't actually "refuse" as in stop you from building - all they can do is to force you to shell out money to anything up to three surveyors. Even with a notice their legal remedies are the same as if you hadn't submitted one - going to cour£ and trying to take out injunc£ion(s) against you if they want to stop you doing something.

IANAL, but I would have thought that if it turns out that the PWA does not apply then you should be able to ignore the fact that they've decided to dispute it.

If it does apply, then think about using their surveyor to reduce your costs.

My question is did we actually need a party wall notice

If you are right about not going deeper then I think not, but don't rely on that.

and does my neighbour have the right to the above?

He has the right to deny you access to his land. Is there anything there which he could reasonably not want disturbed, prized shrubs for example, or is he just being a ****?

As for the fence, I'd be tempted to remind him that it is jointly owned and tell him that you will remove it and then reinstate it in the same or better condition entirely at your expense. AIUI he would have to go to court to stop you and would probably not be looked on favourably for such a trivial issue.

Do you know what's really at the root of all this? Is it simply that he doesn't want you to have an extension?

 

[Mikejf]

He doesn't like the design of the extension and thinks it will de-value his house. I think he is just trying to be difficult.

I'm sure I read that you do need a PW notice if you are building on or close to the boundary but I can't find the website at the moment.

I assume the fence is not a party wall issue and just a civil dispute.

Mike

 

[ban-all-sheds]

He doesn't like the design of the extension and thinks it will de-value his house. I think he is just trying to be difficult.

Oh well.

He can't stop you - all he can do is make it difficult, and cost you a bit of money, and create bad feeling.

If you can manage to rise above it, and accept it in the same vein as bad weather, and suppliers letting you down, then when it's all done he will be the one left feeling bitter and twisted because he will have failed to stop the extension. And if he doesn't give you access, he'll be left looking at a ragged wall.

The fence is just a civil dispute - if you need to remove and then replace it there is absolutely nothing he can realistically do to stop you.

 

[nickjb]

He doesn't like the design of the extension and thinks it will de-value his house. I think he is just trying to be difficult.

Getting into a dispute with a neighbour is far more likely to devalue a house as it will need to be declared during a sale.

 

[jeds]

You only need a party wall agreement if you want to build on the line of junction or if your foundation is lower than the adjoining foundation. A wall 50mm your side of the boundary is not a party wall.

Does the depth consideration not apply though because of the foundations of the rear & party walls?

The OP already said that the foundation will probably not be deeper than the neighbours foundation.

 

[jeds]

I'm sure I read that you do need a PW notice if you are building on or close to the boundary but I can't find the website at the moment.

I assume the fence is not a party wall issue and just a civil dispute.

Mike

I give up.

 

[Mikejf]

This is still going on...

We have now decided to build 100% on our land. No footings will be on the neighbours land and the footings will be no deeper than the house.

So to clarify, the extension wall will be approx. 75mm away from the boundary line, no overhanging elements other than approx. 25mm copping stones on the parapet wall and the footings will be no deeper than the house. The fence will be re-instated to satisfy the neighbour.

Does this mean we don't need any notices at all?

Many Thanks

Mike