PAT testing 3 phase

[ecowarrior]

PAT testing is for portable appliances on single phase. Why can u buy the biggest red 3 phase plugs for your PAT tester? when would you use it?

 

[ecowarrior]

Thats how I have always understood it but the PAT testing shops sell these large 4 pin commando plugs n sockets?

 

[Risteard]

Nonsense. PAT Testing applies equally to three-phase equipment (and not merely portable equipment). In-service Inspection and Testing of Electrical Equipment is the correct term.

Read the Code of Practice. Where does it state that it merely applies to single-phase equipment or to portable equipment?

Anyone stating this surely isn't competent to perform such inspection and testing.

 

[ericmark]

Nonsense. PAT Testing applies equally to three-phase equipment (and not merely portable equipment). In-service Inspection and Testing of Electrical Equipment is the correct term.

Read the Code of Practice. Where does it state that it merely applies to single-phase equipment or to portable equipment?

Anyone stating this surely isn't competent to perform such inspection and testing.

I would agree to a point. I see nothing wrong with an electrician doing first PAT test and selecting a code for future PAT tests so the semi-skilled tester knows exactly what to test.

I consider using a machine is quicker and easier than dismantling the item to test. So what ever the physical size using a PAT tester must be the easy way out. This includes using adaptors where they can test the appliance to required standard.

Where I see the problem is in the selecting of which can and which can't be tested with a simple PAT test.

Washing machines, frost free freezers, dish washers and other items with thermostats and timers are not items which lend themselves to PAT testing with the machine. These in the main these need some dismantling to test.

However a three phase heater may be according to design easy to test even though it may need to be tested three times one for each phase.

I can not however see how a semi-skilled tester would be able to work out which items could be tested and which were beyond his skill? It needs the first test to be done by a skilled man so he can work out the best method to test it.

 

[Grizzly]

you can not pattest 3 phase only single phase equip

Nonsense.

...

Anyone stating this surely isn't competent to perform such inspection and testing.

+1 for talking rubbish, as Risteard says.

If you don't know what you're talking about, why do you feel the need to post rubbish in the thread?

 

[ecowarrior]

OK then - PAT stands for Portable? So a three phase press weighing 20 tons is not portable?
There is no mention (that I can see ) in the COP mentioning 3 phase - only single phase.
How about a 500A 3 phase welder on wheels? Would you then need three plugs one each for each phase? They dont suggest that in the sales brochure? do they do all 3 phases in one hit?

 

[ecowarrior]

Nonsense. PAT Testing applies equally to three-phase equipment (and not merely portable equipment). In-service Inspection and Testing of Electrical Equipment is the correct term.

Read the Code of Practice. Where does it state that it merely applies to single-phase equipment or to portable equipment?.

Mate I am from another forum where generally help & advice is offered not a good kicking. Am I now Not Competent because I dare to ask a question that hasnt arisen in my working life before? I havnt been involved in a place with three phase that has ever asked me the question before. I advised him it wasnt covered under PORTABLE equipment because it wasnt portable? I dont see where your 'nonsense' comment comes from?

If u say there is another test called 'in service testing' - well that's not PAT testing is it? I am trying to find out the boundaries and when there is a need to do 'in service testing'
Also if the three phases need to be done seporately . I have had a breeze thru the PAT COP and cant find any help. If you can help or send me a link I would be very greatfull.

Please rest assured I am not incompetent?

 

[JohnW2]

... I advised him it wasnt covered under PORTABLE equipment because it wasnt portable? .... If u say there is another test called 'in service testing' - well that's not PAT testing is it? I am trying to find out the boundaries and when there is a need to do 'in service testing'

As I understand it, the point is that 'PAT testing' is an 'everyday' phrase which is not mentioned in regulations/CoPs - which refer only to "In-service Inspection and Testing of Electrical Equipment". It is true that there are many people out there who (e.g. because of the extent of their knowledge/ experience or the equipment they have) have decided to offer a ('PAT') testing service restricted to portable single-phase equipment, but that is their choice. Many of them may not feel adequately trained or experienced to offer the full range of "in service inspection and testing of electrical equipment".

Kind Regards, John.

 

[ecowarrior]

Thanks John

I have done 'simple' Pat testing for years as a customer wanted it of me. I have never looked that deep into it until now when this three phase equipment reared its ugly head! It would be an asset to me to sort this company out & do the 'in service testing'.
I have a degree in electrical engineering so I am sure I can cope - just that I haven't looked for the answers until now. Where can I go to get the information I need to be 'competent' please? I wasn't expecting a torrent of abuse - so thanks for your constructive comments.

When I had an initial look at the COP again every page & every picture & every example is single phase. The biggest being an air-conditioning plant or Central heating boiler.
It does mention in one paragraph the voltages covered are up to 1000 and three phase - but that's the only mention of it?

Thanks

 

[JohnW2]

Thanks John. I have done 'simple' Pat testing for years as a customer wanted it of me. I have never looked that deep into it until now when this three phase equipment reared its ugly head! It would be an asset to me to sort this company out & do the 'in service testing'. I have a degree in electrical engineering so I am sure I can cope - just that I haven't looked for the answers until now. Where can I go to get the information I need to be 'competent' please? I wasn't expecting a torrent of abuse - so thanks for your constructive comments.

You're welcome; some of the responses posted in this forum leave a bit to be desired in terms of usefulness and politeness! Unfortunately, I can't tell you where to get the information you need - it's a field alien from any I'm involved with - but I feel sure that some here ought to be able to point you in the right direction.

When I had an initial look at the COP again every page & every picture & every example is single phase. The biggest being an air-conditioning plant or Central heating boiler.

I guess that even that should have alerted you to the fact that it's not all about 'portable' appliances - since one would have to be quite a weight-lifter to think of AC plant and central heating boliers as being 'portable'

I hope someone here can give you the answers you need.

Kind Regards, John.

 

[ericmark]

OK agreed PAT stands for portable appliance testing not In-service Inspection and Testing of Electrical Equipment. However one must ask who is testing the rest of the plant?

Portable I seem to remember refers to less than 18kg or on wheels. Now the latter opens it up a bit. Batching plant was on wheels designed to be moved with articulated units. Feed was 128A three phase it was tested in sections as it was such a large task. Far heavier than "ecowarrior"'s press.

On the other hand the freezer (not frost free) may not be classed as portable but testing with a PAT tester is far easier than with 17th Edition test set.

I had a box full of adaptors so I could test as much as possible with the PAT tester.

The problem is a guy is sent on a course and that course is only teaching him how to test single phase items with no thermostats and no timers and under 3kW. For that guy to then try to test items with timers and thermostats and three phase and over 3kW is clearly wrong.

If I want to test an earth the PAT tester with 25A must do a far better job than my low ohm ohmmeter at 200mA. So why not use it. It also has a 500 volt high ohm meter built in so again why not use it. Clearly one can't use the run option and measure mA leakage or kW drawn but it is a meter and as long as you know the limitations no reason not to use it.

If PAT stands for portable appliance testing not In-service Inspection and Testing of Electrical Equipment does that mean you don't do a visual inspection? I would hope one would and that of course means you are in fact doing an In-service Inspection and Testing of Electrical Equipment. PAT for short. And that's the point PAT testing is really short for In-service Inspection and Testing of Electrical Equipment not portable appliance testing.

This still leaves the tester with a problem. What does he do with even the simple hand drier? Should he isolate disconnect and use one of these connector units to test it with then refit or does he refer it to some one else to test? I see no easy answer. If he does not test it who does?

The same applies to the guy would is paid a fixed sum for every item he tests. At £1 per item he must test at least 10 per hour so what does he do when the item will take 20 minutes to test by time he's removed it tested it and refitted it? Up's sorry I missed that one.

OK when we tender we state PAT testing for all items with 13A plug and not timers or thermostats. So who does the rest?

 

[Grizzly]

Mate I am from another forum where generally help & advice is offered not a good kicking. Am I now Not Competent because I dare to ask a question that hasnt arisen in my working life before?... I dont see where your 'nonsense' comment comes from?

Wrong end of the stick there, mate.
I believe Risteard's comments (and therefore mine) were directed at ALoveCollege, not you.

If u say there is another test called 'in service testing' - well that's not PAT testing is it? I am trying to find out the boundaries and when there is a need to do 'in service testing'

There's no such thing as PAT anymore, really. The term persists, though.
'In-service Inspection & Testing of Electrical Equipment' covers all that 'PAT' did, and more.

Also if the three phases need to be done seporately . I have had a breeze thru the PAT COP and cant find any help. If you can help or send me a link I would be very greatfull.

The 3 phases don't need to be done seperatley. That's just Eric muddying the waters with yet another rambling post.

If you want some pointers, then the following places in the IEE Code of Practice for In-service Inspection & Testing of Electrical Equipment, 3rd Edition (I presume this is what you mean when you mention PAT COP?):

Section 1.4 Voltages and phases (page 8.)
Section 10.2.1 Three-phase equipment (page 47)
Section 15.5 The insulation resistance test, Note 5 (page 76)

Basically, the only tests that can be done on a 3-phase appliance with a single-phase tester (and appropriate adaptor lead) are Earth Bond and Insulation Resistance. No powered tests can be performed, for obvious reasons.

Please rest assured I am not incompetent?

I'm sure you're not

 

[ecowarrior]

Grizzly - I have just read all this post again & you are correct - so sorry for being snappy (time of the month
Thanks for the info.Its just what I was after - cant see for looking sometimes.
Regards
Kim