PD - Acceptable gap between two rear extensions

[CooperP]

Hello

My PD application for two single story rear extensions has been rejected, due to the 100mm gap between the two single stories not considered big enough by the LPA. They have based their decision on an example of an appeal which lost due to a 25mm gap (a quarter of the size in comparison). I have asked the LPA to define what they consider to be an acceptable gap and each time they’ve failed to provide an answer.

I have decided to appeal this and in support of my case was wondering if anyone has had experience of this or if anyone has appeal references that have won cases based on gaps 100mm or less.

Many thanks.

 

[blup]

What was the relevant reason for refusal?

 

[LukeB123]

What was the relevant reason for refusal?

Because it's a PD application and it doesn't meet the PD criteria probably?

Would be nice to see the plans to comment properly and maybe an accompanying photo. There is quite a lot of case law on this - I am sure there was a similar thread a few months ago on a similar matter, but in summary, there isn't a set figure or precedent when determining if something is "separated" in PD planning. There's lots of appeals where some have agreed a short gap such as 50mm is suitable and some where 300mm is not a sufficient gap.

In my (general) opinion if you are building them to act and function as two separate extensions, then a small (or smaller) gap is likely to be acceptable. If you are building them to almost serve as one larger area, or they have some relationship or connectivity, then you are going to need a big gap. This is all debatable though as there is no definite number and also conflicting case law - so good luck.

 

[blup]

OK, I thought PD was PD and didn't need an application, am confused now....

 

[blup]

Did the Council quote which part of PD it falls foul of then?

 

[LukeB123]

I assume they are putting a LDC in or maybe a Neighbourhood scheme. In either case they are likely to fall foul of Class A (together the extensions will be too wide or too deep)

 

[^woody^]

Why oh why go people bother applying for that LDC nonsense?

If it's permitted development then its already approved and you don't need to apply for jack.

If it's not permitted development then why TF apply for a LDC in the first place - it will be refused? Apply for planning permission.

 

[wessex101]

Why oh why go people bother applying for that LDC nonsense?

If it's permitted development then its already approved and you don't need to apply for jack.

If it's not permitted development then why TF apply for a LDC in the first place - it will be refused? Apply for planning permission.

Because the permitted development rules are a joke. Good example here, is the gap allowed 25mm, 50mm, 100mm, 300mm who knows? Who wants to risk tens of thousands of pounds building an extension in the honest belief that it is PD for some pedantic little turd at the Town Hall smugly informing you that because of some obscure technicality it isn't PD and they wont grant planning permission.

 

[^woody^]

Because the permitted development rules are a joke. Good example here, is the gap allowed 25mm, 50mm, 100mm, 300mm who knows? Who wants to risk tens of thousands of pounds building an extension in the honest belief that it is PD for some pedantic little turd at the Town Hall smugly informing you that because of some obscure technicality it isn't PD and they wont grant planning permission.

What are the rules on gaps?

 

[CooperP]

Hi,

The house is staggered at the back, hence both single storey extensions are from the rear wall, individual and separated.
One extension is extending the kitchen and the other the lounge. They are separated with a clean 100mm gap with parapet walls ensuring the roofs are separate too.

The LPA has now advised that recent appeal decisions have stated that the “separation would need to be material” – i.e. the extensions must be capable of being seen as separate entities (which we believe they are!)
As the LPA no longer consider 100mm adequate they have refused CoL based on the following:
(j) the enlarged part of the dwellinghouse would extend beyond a wall forming a side elevation of the original dwellinghouse, and would
(iii) have a width greater than half the width of the original dwellinghouse;

They supported their refusal with APP/U2235/X/13/2195960 which failed appeal on the basis of a 25mm gap (a quarter of our gap!). The plans within this appeal were also very different and incorporated a typical side and rear extension.

Having challenged the LPA, they are however unable to advise on the minimum gap or where to find this information, as it isn’t defined in PDTechGuide.

Any help with appeals that have been successful for gaps 100mm and under would be most appreciated!!

Note: The LPA approved our PDXL application with a 100mm gap between extensions in 2014. The certificate has since expired hence why we are re-applying. Surely if approved then, it should be acceptable now on the basic that no clarity has been provided since in updated PDTG.

 

[tony1851]

On the PJ website, there are three examples of successful appeals where two proposed extensions have been separated by gaps of 1.0m, 0.5m and 0.05m respectively.
Conversely, there are two appeal cases involving gaps of 0.025m and 0.25m where inspectors have held that those gaps are not material.
The 0.025m figure suggests that the OP's LPA has lifted that case straight from PJ, though perhaps have slyly not mentioned the case where a 0.05m gap has been accepted.
So clearly, it is a moot point, and this issue doesn't seem to have been tested in the courts.
However, if the LPA are objecting on the grounds that the extension contravenes A1(j) [extends beyond a side wall....etc] then the OP is on more difficult ground.

 

[blup]

If the council should have known about/disclosed all relevant appeal decisions, OP's advisers should/might have as well (if he has any).

Blup

 

[CooperP]

Thank you Tony1851.

I don't have access to PJ (planning jungle??). Would you be kind enough to advise of the Appeal ID's so that I can read up on them?

Thank you

 

[^woody^]

Every situation is distinct. The requirement is that their is separation between the new and old but that does not just mean physical but visual too. So if the two things look separate then the actual gap can be smaller. It's subjective and any agent recommending an application fo an LDC should be damn sure he has at least a clue what he his doing.

 

[tony1851]

For example, the roof of one extension could be pitched, while the other done with a flat roof. And if the extensions are both of different lengths, that might also help distinguish them visually, even if the gap is small.