Periodic Inspection - Help needed!

[rikdogguk]

Hi All

Wondering if I could get some advice here. I am selling my house and had an electrician round today to complete a periodic inspection certificate. As I am selling the house, I obviously need to get any unsafe issues rectified, but I got the feeling I was being taken for a ride as some of what I was told didn't seem right!

- The house lighting is on a single ring - this is "not up to regs" and needed split into two rings. When pressed he said it was not unsafe, but it still needed doing?

- New consumer unit to accommodate the additional lighting circuit

- There are thee plug circuits in the house. Ring 1, which overs the upstairs with two spurs to downstairs sockets (solid floor in rear of house, presumably why these sockets are spurred from upstairs). 5 double sockets ring, 1 double and 1 single on two spurs. Ring 2 - which covers the downstairs front of the house where there are suspended floors (3 double sockets). A third circuit which covers the kitchen at the back (3 doubles). Apparently having sockets split across floors is not to regs and needs rectifying? This would be a huge job and would mean lifting all my carpets, floor boards etc throughout.

- He told me the kitchen sockets are all spurs. I pointed out that they are all switched off by a single RCD so how could they be spurs? Then told me it was defective ring main with no return (radial circuit?) and it was unsafe. There are 3 double sockets on this circuit. Gas cooker.

- No earth bonding on incoming water (correct) though there is bonding on gas and supplementary bonding in bathroom. He advised this is unsafe.

- He charged £170 and was in the house for 1.5 hours. He would not give me a periodic inspection cert as he said I wouldn't understand it, but he would flag up the required remedials on his quote. I said I would pay him when I got the certificate as I needed that to get quotes from other people!

- He said he cannot do any work on the installation as it is "not to regs" due to above and would need to bring it up to current regs first before he can do the work required to make safe.

I appreciate you don't know the details, but I was just wondering if the above makes sense as it seems a bit much! When I pressed him to try and understand the faults in more detail he got quite defensive, kept saying "its full of faults", and seemed very keen to leave!

Cheers, Richard

 

[EFLImpudence]

Wondering if I could get some advice here. I am selling my house and had an electrician round today to complete a periodic inspection certificate. As I am selling the house, I obviously need to get any unsafe issues rectified, but I got the feeling I was being taken for a ride as some of what I was told didn't seem right!

I think you are correct.

- The house lighting is on a single ring - this is "not up to regs" and needed split into two rings. When pressed he said it was not unsafe, but it still needed doing?

- New consumer unit to accommodate the additional lighting circuit

- There are thee plug circuits in the house. Ring 1, which overs the upstairs with two spurs to downstairs sockets (solid floor in rear of house, presumably why these sockets are spurred from upstairs). 5 double sockets ring, 1 double and 1 single on two spurs. Ring 2 - which covers the downstairs front of the house where there are suspended floors (3 double sockets). A third circuit which covers the kitchen at the back (3 doubles). Apparently having sockets split across floors is not to regs and needs rectifying? This would be a huge job and would mean lifting all my carpets, floor boards etc throughout.

- He told me the kitchen sockets are all spurs. I pointed out that they are all switched off by a single RCD so how could they be spurs? Then told me it was defective ring main with no return (radial circuit?) and it was unsafe. There are 3 double sockets on this circuit. Gas cooker.

All nonsense.

- No earth bonding on incoming water (correct) though there is bonding on gas and supplementary bonding in bathroom. He advised this is unsafe.

That may be an issue but if the incoming water pipe is plastic then no bonding is necessary - nor possible.

I would not bother if I were you.
It is up to the buyer to commission surveys and/or reports if they want to.

 

[ban-all-sheds]

I am selling my house and had an electrician round today to complete a periodic inspection certificate.

No need for you to do that - buyers commission their own surveys. No buyer would (or should) trust a seller's report. On the questionnaire did you disclose any notifiable electrical work which doesn't have Building Regulations approval?

As I am selling the house, I obviously need to get any unsafe issues rectified

No you don't.

- The house lighting is on a single ring - this is "not up to regs" and needed split into two rings.

He's lying.

When pressed he said it was not unsafe, but it still needed doing?

He's lying.

- New consumer unit to accommodate the additional lighting circuit

Not needed - that requirement is predicated on a lie.

Apparently having sockets split across floors is not to regs and needs rectifying?

He's lying.

- He told me the kitchen sockets are all spurs.

He's lying.

I pointed out that they are all switched off by a single RCD so how could they be spurs?

That won't have helped you look like someone he couldn't get away with lying to.

Then told me it was defective ring main with no return (radial circuit?) and it was unsafe.

That might be true. What is the rating of the circuit breaker?

- No earth bonding on incoming water (correct) though there is bonding on gas and supplementary bonding in bathroom. He advised this is unsafe.

It might be. Is your water supply pipe plastic or metal? Did he do any tests to see if it needed bonding?

He would not give me a periodic inspection cert as he said I wouldn't understand it,

He's lying - that isn't why he doesn't want to give you the certificate. Which is what he was paid to provide, FFS.

I said I would pay him when I got the certificate as I needed that to get quotes from other people!

Good man.

Don't pay him even if it does arrive - it will be a pack of lies, and the fact that he is planning to quote you for the remedial work proves that he has told you these lies to get even more money put of you for work which is not needed.

He said he cannot do any work on the installation as it is "not to regs" due to above and would need to bring it up to current regs first before he can do the work required to make safe.

He's lying.

When I pressed him to try and understand the faults in more detail he got quite defensive, kept saying "its full of faults", and seemed very keen to leave!

I'm not surprised - probably started to worry that his lying would be uncovered.

Ignore the fraudulent little git. If he tries anything legal to get paid, point out that the job isn't complete until he has issued the certificate, at which point you'll be delighted to see him in court where an expert witness will comment on it.

 

[rikdogguk]

Thanks very much for the quick response! Confirms my gut feeling really!

Yeah to be honest I don't really want to be doing this. The problem is, there are some old surface mount sockets in the kitchen and the electrics were flagged up by their surveyor as needing further investigation. The buyers are FTBs and don't have a clue - if they get their own electrician in, and end up with someone like the chap I got - they will take their report as gospel and looking to negotiate on major remedial work. I was thinking, being reasonably clued up, would be easier if I found my own electrician and got a PIR done - for the sake of the £150 or so it will cost me....

 

[rikdogguk]

The kitchen circuit is on a 32 amp breaker. The small ring covering the downstairs front of the house (3 double sockets) is on a 20 amp breaker for some reason which seems a bit low perhaps but there is minimal load on these sockets (lamps and a TV) and never had it trip. Other ring main is 32 amp breaker. Lights 6 amp.

I checked under the sink. It IS bonded, but cable looks pretty thin so may not be sufficient. He had a meter with him so assume he was doing some testing but I didn't stand around watching him work. I didn't see him fill out any forms as he went along though he made some notes on the back of an envelope.

 

[stillp]

The small ring covering the downstairs front of the house (3 double sockets) is on a 20 amp breaker for some reason

Perhaps the ring is broken so the MCB has been reduced to 20A?

 

[ban-all-sheds]

The problem is, there are some old surface mount sockets in the kitchen

Nothing wrong with that, per se.

and the electrics were flagged up by their surveyor as needing further investigation.

"Surveyors" always, always, ALWAYS say that. It's A**e-covering.

The buyers are FTBs and don't have a clue - if they get their own electrician in, and end up with someone like the chap I got - they will take their report as gospel and looking to negotiate on major remedial work.

They might - but then you could ask to see the report, and if it was done by a lying git like yours you could point out that they had paid a lying git and that you weren't going to drop the price because of it. Houses are bought as seen, and the price should reflect the condition it is in. Hardly any (not even brand new ones according to what I have recently read) won't need some kind of "remedial" work.

 

[ban-all-sheds]

The kitchen circuit is on a 32 amp breaker. The small ring covering the downstairs front of the house (3 double sockets) is on a 20 amp breaker for some reason

Given all his other scams, are you sure that he didn't swap those around while you weren't looking?

I checked under the sink. It IS bonded, but cable looks pretty thin so may not be sufficient.

How big?

Is that the point where the water supply enters the building?

I didn't see him fill out any forms as he went along though he made some notes on the back of an envelope.

He can write, then.

 

[rikdogguk]

I know, its just arse covering by the surveyors - frustrating.

The earth bonding is on the pipe where it enters the house yes - its an old lead pipe (surveyor didn't pick up on that!!!) and its on the copper which connects into it. The cable is not particularly beefy, I am guessing at 4mm2.

I don't think the 20 amp ring main is broken. If I take a socket off, there is current in both the live cables coming in? (sorry that is a rather crude test and may be meaningless!). I am guessing though this is not unsafe - just would need improvement?

So I just checked the NIC website - I cannot find the chap in question either by name or by company name listed on the NIC website! Might drop trading standards a line.

 

[stillp]

I just checked the NIC website - I cannot find the chap in question either by name or by company name listed on the NIC website! Might drop trading standards a line.

Did he claim to be an NICEIC member? If so, tell them. They'll be much more concerned than Trading Standards although you should inform TS as well.
If not, not necessarily a problem, there are other trade bodies, but there is no legal requirement to be a member of any of them.

 

[winston1]

- The house lighting is on a single ring - this is "not up to regs" and needed split into two rings. When pressed he said it was not unsafe, but it still needed doing?

Lighting circuits are never on rings, they are radial circuits. He clearly has no idea.

 

[Doggit]

I think you're looking at this from the wrong way round - especially as it's normally the FTBs that are asking the questions of us - as the electrics obviously need upgrading, but it's not your responsibility to do the work; the electrics are safe and acceptable, so it's up to the buyers as to whether they upgrade them. They may try and knock a few grand off the asking price, and they may ask for their own electrician to asses the wiring so they know what's involved so that they have the info required, but you are being taken for a ride by the "electrician", and I wouldn't bother to pay him, and I'd let the buyers decide what they want to do, and come back to us when you get a response from them

 

[SimonH2]

Hardly any (not even brand new ones according to what I have recently read) won't need some kind of "remedial" work.

My mum's new house doesn't fully comply with BS7671 in that there is about 6" or more of the meter tails buried in the plaster below the CU. It also doesn't fully comply with the requirements for LABC Guarantees - their construction manual states that there should be a 32A cooker supply, and the tight-a**e left that out.

Did he claim to be an NICEIC member? If so, tell them. They'll be much more concerned than Trading Standards although you should inform TS as well.
If not, not necessarily a problem, there are other trade bodies, but there is no legal requirement to be a member of any of them.

But if he's planning to replace the CU and add a circuit (split the lights) then he either has to be in a scheme; or someone has to apply for building regs (expensive); or someone is planning to ignore the law.

 

[stillp]

But if he's planning to replace the CU and add a circuit (split the lights) then he either has to be in a scheme; or someone has to apply for building regs (expensive); or someone is planning to ignore the law.

I wonder which of those 3 options is most likely...?

 

[ban-all-sheds]

Sir, Sir!

Is it #3, Sir?