Periodic Inspection / spur question

[jtc]

Hi I am about to get the houses first periodic inspection for landlord purposes. I am sure many faults will become apparent but there is one that I am fairly sure will fail so will look to get it done before the inspection.

There is a spur coming of the ring to a fused outlet for a sanilflo. This fused box then feeds a double socket, this double socket then feeds a single socket that the boiler and CH programmer are plugged into. So basically its a 3 stage spur which I am sure is not compliant !!!
If I connect the double socket which is the centre of the threesome back into the ring will this make it compliant ?

Also I have a gas pipe running through a wall with an electric cable going through the same hole almost touching. Is this ok or should there be some additional insulation between the gas pipe and electric cable.
Thanks for any advice.

 

[JohnW2]

There is a spur coming of the ring to a fused outlet for a sanilflo. This fused box then feeds a double socket, this double socket then feeds a single socket that the boiler and CH programmer are plugged into. So basically its a 3 stage spur which I am sure is not compliant !!!

If the double socket (and hence subsequent single socket) is connected to the 'input' (ring) side of the fused connection unit then, as you say, this would be non-compliant; one is not allowed more than one socket (let alone something else as well) on an unfused spur.

However, although this is probably not what you mean, if the double socket (and hence subsequent single socket) were connected to the 'output' (fused) side of fused outlet (with a 13A fuse in that), then it might be regarded as just about compliant (although not ideal), since one is allowed an unlimited number of sockets on a fused spur. However, even then there would be two 'catches' which might be raised. Firstly, the Saniflow would neither have its own outlet nor a low value fuse (the manufacturer's instructions may well require a 3A fuse) and, secondly, it would mean having both the solid wire of the connection to the socket and the stranded wire of the Saniflow's cable were connected to the same terminals in the the fused connection unit, which is not good practice (good connection may not be obtained).

If I connect the double socket which is the centre of the threesome back into the ring will this make it compliant ?

If I understand you correctly, yes, this would then be compliant. The double socket would then be part of the ring and the one single socket coming from it would then be acceptable as an unfused spur. The connection unit for the Saniflow would have to come separately from the ring.

Also I have a gas pipe running through a wall with an electric cable going through the same hole almost touching. Is this ok or should there be some additional insulation between the gas pipe and electric cable.

The Wiring Regs (BS7671, section 528.3) are pretty vague about this. However, the associated 'On-Site Guide' indicates that BS6891 (presumably relating to gas matters) says that there should be 25mm separation between electrical cables and gas pipes but that this 25mm 'may be reduced if the gas pipe is PVC wrapped or a pane of insulating material is interposed' - although that, too, is obviously a little vague.

Kind Regards, John

 

[PrenticeBoyofDerry]

It sounds like the spur is fused already, is it a fused spur?
If so you should be okay, providing the fuse rating is suitable for the cable size.

Electric cable and gas pipes, the distance between them will depend on the size of the pipe, but they should not be touching.
At least 25mm for 35mm pipe.
If the pipe work is over 35mm then at least 50mm.

 

[JohnW2]

It sounds like the spur is fused already, is it a fused spur?

The feed to the Saniflow is obvioulsy fused but, as I implied in my reply, I suspect that the feed to the sockets probably currently comes off the unfused side of the FCU.

If so you should be okay, providing the fuse rating is suitable for the cable size.

Indeed. If the OP decided to go with the 'fused spur' approach, presumably the fuse would be 13A (for one double + one single socket). I suppose that would theoretically allow the sockets to be wired with 1.5mm² cable, although I would personally use 2.5mm² (which I presume is currently the case with the OP's installation).

Kind Regards, John.

 

[jtc]

Thanks for the replies.

The sanilflo is the only thing coming out of the load fused side so I see what you mean, the rest is not on the fused spur side. Not sure what size fuse it is but I think I will go with connecting the double socket to the ring, then I have 2 seperate spurs coming out of the double socket, if that is allowed.
Edit: Although would that actually make the original fused unit part of the ring as well leaving me with just one spur, the single socket. If that is making sense...

On further inspection of the gas pipe it has a larger diameter copper pipe around it presumably acting as protective sleeving through the wall. So I assume this is doing the job I was first worried about.

 

[PrenticeBoyofDerry]

You could install a 13A FCU before the FCU of the saniflo,
So you can still have your sockets on the the supply side of the FCU for the sanilfo and the saniflo can be down rated as it should be.
If it's copper pipe sleeve, still needs separation. You can PVC wrap the gas pipe or use an insulating material around it.

 

[JohnW2]

The sanilflo is the only thing coming out of the load fused side so I see what you mean, the rest is not on the fused spur side. Not sure what size fuse it is but I think I will go with connecting the double socket to the ring, then I have 2 seperate spurs coming out of the double socket, if that is allowed.

Although I've never found anything in the regs which actually says this, many people will argue that you shoudln't have two spurs originating in the same place. Anyway, regs aside, it can be difficulty/impossible to satisfactorily get 4 cables terminated in one socket - so it's not really recommended. However .....

Edit: Although would that actually make the original fused unit part of the ring as well leaving me with just one spur, the single socket. If that is making sense...

Yes. The most obvious thing to do is to have both the double socket and the fused connection unit as part of the ring, hence with just one unfused spur (the single socket coming off the double one).

On further inspection of the gas pipe it has a larger diameter copper pipe around it presumably acting as protective sleeving through the wall. So I assume this is doing the job I was first worried about.

That outer pipe will be for 'gas' reasons (protection of pipe from movements in wall etc.), not electrical ones, and being copper it would not satisfy the requirement for an insulating separator which I mentioned. However, it may have the effect of separating the pipe from cable by 25mm - and, even if it doesn't, even though I wouldn't advise anyone to violate regulations, I know what I'd think about teh situation!

Kind Regards, John.

 

[jtc]

Thanks guys. Yes I was thinking four cables into a socket would be hard work. The 13A FU before the saniflo FU seems the best solution.
I'll measure the distance between cable and gas pipe but think there is adequate distance
Thanks again.