Peripheral neuropathy

[Judy in the sky]

Assisted suicide will become legal within a few years, and at some point after that, there'll be an honets debate about keeping people alive well past their sell by date. Too many dementia patients get surgery to keep them alive, when the kindest thing would be to let them go if they arrest for some reason.

Okay, now who's going to rip me to bits.

I can assure you, dementia patients only get operations that are absolutely needed. Dementia has differing stages. Many people forget that a lot of dementia sufferers lead full and productive lives for quite a few years after the initial diagnosis. They're not all old and doddery. Some can be in their mid to late 40's. Would you write someone off at 45 just because they'd been diagnosed? Would you deny a 50 yr old a hip operation just because they have dementia? Many older dementia patients are already on DNAR in hospital so if they arrest, they are quite literally made comfortable and nothing else.

Assisted suicide is something I'm not altogether comfortable with. For starters, there's a lot of safeguards that would have to be put in place, not only to stop greedy (as opposed to grieving) relatives signing someone's life away, but also to stop accountants (yes hospitals do have accountants) making decisions about a patients life. Would be an easy target for the government to "put to sleep" all those in hospital with a dementia diagnosis, wouldn't it? Could save the NHS £ millions per year, but then you wouldn't trust them any more would you? Once "Assisted Suicide" became law, (heaven forbid) Who has the ultimate say? What about say, an 11 yr old traffic accident victim, who's going to be , quite literally a vegetable for the rest of their life? An only child who's parents were killed in the same accident. NHS and Social Services could save hundreds of thousands, by simply denying them the right to live. These are the dangers.
Hypothetically, if you were diagnosed with dementia at an age of 55, knowing you could live another 15-20+ yrs,,, would you like your children given the power to consign you to a couple of injections to kill you? Do you trust your children enough to allow you 15-20+ yrs more life?

Ripped to bits enough?

 

[Doggit]

As expected, but no, very poor job Judy. All you've said, is pretty much as I anticipate it will go. The accountants will eventually have control, and most of your fears will be overridden, and society will eventually take it as par for the course. But I didn't mean dementia (and alzheimers ) sufferers in the early stages, but the final gagag point. But it's not the hospitals that are the problem, but the nursing homes and the social care that'll be the issue.

 

[Judy in the sky]

But it's not the hospitals that are the problem, but the nursing homes and the social care that'll be the issue.

Doggit, we have patients at all stages of dementia in hospital. It's not only Social care and Nursing homes who take these patients towards the end of their lives. I have nursed many patients with dementia on End of Life care. Sometimes with relatives present, more often with no one there. I have always tried to be there at the end for my patients in this position. (I'm an end of life contact person on my regular ward) But our ward is busy and quite a few times, another patient needs some intervention (re-positioning or perhaps a bedpan) and I return to the EOL patient and they've sadly passed on. Always sadder for me when this happens ( I certainly don't want to die on my own) I'm sure you are right, that in one day it will be accountants (with no medical training ) who'll be making life or death decisions in our hospitals. Just imagine what it would be like without our NHS though.. No insurance?? Ahh let him/ her die... Yes , I'm sure sad times lie ahead.

 

[blightymam]

I guess Judy that it may be harder for you as your whole industry is trying to save people so it must be hard with suicide, assisted or not?

The thing I disagree with is punishing the partners of people who they've helped along the way. Occasionally you hear about someone who has helped a loved one end their suffering. The ones who are seriously ill, incurably so and have no quality of life, and asked for help to end things. I know the law is the law and it's a murder or manslaughter charge but sometimes it doesn't seem the right punishment. I think those should always be taken case by case.

Sorry Dave the way the thread has run. Am sure you'll be ok!!!

 

[Brigadier]

Doggit, we have patients at all stages of dementia in hospital. It's not only Social care and Nursing homes who take these patients towards the end of their lives. I have nursed many patients with dementia on End of Life care. Sometimes with relatives present, more often with no one there. I have always tried to be there at the end for my patients in this position. (I'm an end of life contact person on my regular ward) But our ward is busy and quite a few times, another patient needs some intervention (re-positioning or perhaps a bedpan) and I return to the EOL patient and they've sadly passed on. Always sadder for me when this happens ( I certainly don't want to die on my own) I'm sure you are right, that in one day it will be accountants (with no medical training ) who'll be making life or death decisions in our hospitals. Just imagine what it would be like without our NHS though.. No insurance?? Ahh let him/ her die... Yes , I'm sure sad times lie ahead.

Forgive me for stepping in on your behalf, Doggit, but I take your point about nursing homes and social care as being

Such institutions will have fewer checks and balances than hospitals, and so would be more likely to pull the plug, all other things being equal?

 

[HawkEye244]

I can assure you, dementia patients only get operations that are absolutely needed. Dementia has differing stages. Many people forget that a lot of dementia sufferers lead full and productive lives for quite a few years after the initial diagnosis. They're not all old and doddery. Some can be in their mid to late 40's. Would you write someone off at 45 just because they'd been diagnosed? Would you deny a 50 yr old a hip operation just because they have dementia? Many older dementia patients are already on DNAR in hospital so if they arrest, they are quite literally made comfortable and nothing else.

Assisted suicide is something I'm not altogether comfortable with. For starters, there's a lot of safeguards that would have to be put in place, not only to stop greedy (as opposed to grieving) relatives signing someone's life away, but also to stop accountants (yes hospitals do have accountants) making decisions about a patients life. Would be an easy target for the government to "put to sleep" all those in hospital with a dementia diagnosis, wouldn't it? Could save the NHS £ millions per year, but then you wouldn't trust them any more would you? Once "Assisted Suicide" became law, (heaven forbid) Who has the ultimate say? What about say, an 11 yr old traffic accident victim, who's going to be , quite literally a vegetable for the rest of their life? An only child who's parents were killed in the same accident. NHS and Social Services could save hundreds of thousands, by simply denying them the right to live. These are the dangers.
Hypothetically, if you were diagnosed with dementia at an age of 55, knowing you could live another 15-20+ yrs,,, would you like your children given the power to consign you to a couple of injections to kill you? Do you trust your children enough to allow you 15-20+ yrs more life?

Ripped to bits enough?

Just because you work in a hospital does not make you an authority on health judy.

Your opinion is not the only opinion. Yours is not the only experience.

 

[JohnD]

Yeah, just think about the people who believe in homeopaths or herbalists!

I find myself strongly drawn to the Doctrine of Signs.

 

[HawkEye244]

Yeah, just think about the people who believe in homeopaths or herbalists!

I find myself strongly drawn to the Doctrine of Signs.

Troll reply

 

[JohnD]

I did visit a reflexologist about my painful foot, but she didn't know where to press.

 

[HawkEye244]

Yeah if you want to troll that's fine but there are serious points being made at the same time.

 

[JohnD]

You know what they call alternative medicine that's been proved to work?

 

[HawkEye244]

go on

 

[JohnD]

Medicine.

 

[HawkEye244]

Just awesome. Fantastic.

 

[JohnD]

Glad you liked it. Though I'm surprised a homeopath enthusiast hasn't heard it before.