Permitted Development, Certificate of Lawfulness

[jeds]

I don't really see a problem with consulting neighbours on certificates of lawfulness. On the application I mentioned earlier the LA was all set to give a certificate to my clients neighbour that was clearly wrong. The planner told me so on the phone and when I challenged it she got shirty with me, told me they had checked it with a planning lawyer and put the phone down on me.

It was only after a letter pointing out that their lawyer was wrong and that the LA would be liable for my clients costs if they issued a certificate that it got sorted. Well, the application was mysteriously withdrawn at the last moment and has not reappeared since - couple of years ago now.

I know you could argue that the certificate would be invalid if a mistake was made but try telling the neighbour that. And I reckon they would have been building within a week, so by the time the mess could be sorted out works would probably be complete. And that is only if the LA will actually talk to you to get is sorted. My experience is that once the LA files something dead it is neigh on impossible to get them to even discuss it.

That was old rules and the same situation couldn't probably arise now but there are bound to be other anomilies.

 

[freddiemercurystwin]

I just spoke to a planner regarding this as I was speaking to them on a different matter anyhoo with this particular LA it appears on the online register, it is not advertised though and there is no formal route to objection (that's not to say they couldn't though of course). Apparently it is done 'just to keep the neighbours informed' and as we know even if they did object this should not prejudice any decision which should be a straight yes or no anyway.

 

[DavidWP]

I suspect the planners want to give the neighbours the opportunity to claim you are building over the boundary etc.

 

[DevilDamo]

To me, that post sounded like you are aware of the job and are aware we are building over the boundary? Well... we're not. Not by a long way so it's nothing to do with that. However, if your post read something along the lines of...

"The planners have to notify the adjoining owners and they could object on grounds of boundaries (i.e. is the boundary to our site shown correctly)"

 

[Paul_C]

If the works are within the permitted development limits, then why would you be informing the council's planning dept. in the first place, since they have absolutely no say in the matter?

 

[freddiemercurystwin]

Because when you come to sell your house with your two year old extension for example, the buyers solicitor pipes up and asks for proof of Planning Permission then when you reply it was done under PD and permission was not required the solicitor ask for proof it didn't need permission. This is where your Cert of Lawful Development comes in.

 

[DevilDamo]

If the works are within the permitted development limits, then why would you be informing the council's planning dept. in the first place, since they have absolutely no say in the matter?

Well, as freddymercurystwin mentioned but it's VERY difficult for a homeowner, architect to establish whether or works fall within PD even if they followed the PD guidelines. Granted the guidelines and the information on the PP website does help and it's "always" common practice to have something confirmed in writing. A verbal agreement/confirmation means nothing.

In more cases than none, there is always something the planning department will pick up on, which may take the works out of PD. And... upsetting planning in the first instance is not ideal especially as they have the powers to stop work on site.

Building Regulations however can be a little more leniant.

 

[Paul_C]

Hmm..... A quick search for my local district council reveals that for a Lawful Development Certificate they want a fee of half the equivalent planning application fee (whatever "equivalent" is supposed to mean, since if it's permitted development no planning application would be required).

So pay a fee to get a piece of paper that I'm not required to have which confirms that I don't need permission to do what I'm doing in the first place?

No thanks - I have far better things to do with my money.

 

[DevilDamo]

Correct!

If you're applying for a proposed use (i.e. works to be carried out), then the fee is half the planning fee, which would be (for example)... £75 for a householder and £85 for non-residential. If you're applying for an existing use (i.e. works that are or have been carried out), then the fee is a fall planning fee, which would be £150 and £170 respectively.

It's up to you whether or not you go through the process. I for one suggest going down this route if I believe the works fall within PD because the last thing you want if/when you come to sell is for the solicitor to raise the query, ask you to prove planning permission was not required, having to pay the full fee (i.e. £150) and then run the risk of the planning department picking up on other things you may have done, which may have required permission OR the planning authority refusing the certificate, which would mean the works carried out were unauthorised. Like I mentioned... the information on the PP website are guides and it's always recommended to check with your L.A. prior to carrying out any works.

Oh and if you do not obtain a Certificate and a neighbour or anybody else reports these works to the council, the council will ask for proof the works did not require an application and if that's not possible, they can stop works on site causing major problems, delays and increased costs to the project.

For the sake of filling in an application form and submitting a 50% fee, it's VERY much worth it. And no, I do NOT work in sales and marketing

 

[freddiemercurystwin]

it's "always" common practice to have something confirmed in writing.

I wouldn't go that far DevilDamo, some projects are pretty clear cut.

So pay a fee to get a piece of paper that I'm not required to have which confirms that I don't need permission to do what I'm doing in the first place?

No thanks - I have far better things to do with my money.

Of course you can look at it like that but when you're in the middle of a chain and a huge spanner gets thrown in the works causing a 10 week delay the price of a Certificate is small fry. There are plenty of threads on the Forum from unfortunate sellers in just this situation. Of course if you have no intention of selling anytime soon or are the kind of ballsy seller to stick two fingers up to such requests from solicitors and chance a house sale falling through then that's I agree 100%. The certificates are a necessary evil I'm afraid.

 

[freddiemercurystwin]

For the sake of filling in an application form and submitting a 50% fee, it's VERY much worth it. And no, I do NOT work in sales and marketing

Its not just a 50% LA fee though is it, you still need pretty much everything drawn up for a full application.

 

[DevilDamo]

I wouldn't go that far DevilDamo, some projects are pretty clear cut.

Yes but I still advise my clients to get that officially confirmed in writing, which the L.A. will only do in the form of a Certificate of Lawfulness. Save time in the future by applying and sorting it out now.

For the sake of filling in an application form and submitting a 50% fee, it's VERY much worth it. And no, I do NOT work in sales and marketing

Its not just a 50% LA fee though is it, you still need pretty much everything drawn up for a full application.

Ok yes... you still need the drawings/backup documentation to go with it but the L.A fees still remain at 50% or 100%. You'd engage an architect/technician for the working drawings on the majority of projects so just ask them to submit a Certificate, which is in reality the same amount of work/documents required as for a full planning application but you get that important bit of paper at the end (if your application is deemed lawful).

 

[DevilDamo]

Just an update on this... our Certificate of Lawfulness has been approved and I'm currently in the process of putting together the working drawings

 

[freddiemercurystwin]

Always a sigh of relief even when you know it ticks all the boxes!