Phone Socket Wiring?

[Rusty10]

Hi

Just had to move the phone socket. Re wired & our broadband connection works fine however, there is no dial tone when trying to make calls?

When we ring our number from a mobile we hear a ringing tone but the phone doesn't ring?

There are 4 wires (Blue, Brown, Orange, Green) so its an older cable but any ideas why we have data but no voice...

Any help gratefully received

 

[Taylortwocities]

Did you make a careful note of where the old wires were connected?
Are you using the same socket?
You say broadband works OK. Is this connected to the socket that you moved?
Is this the master, or a slave socket?

Have you checked out the WIKI? //www.diynot.com/wiki/electrics:telephones:socket

 

[Rusty10]

Hi thanks for the reply.

Are you using the same socket?

yes

Is this connected to the socket that you moved?
Is this the master, or a slave socket?

Only one socket and its the master...

The Wiki is very helpful however, it seems to only relate to the new wiring colours?

 

[Taylortwocities]

Do you have a linemaster? This has a front panel that you unscrew and there is another socket behind it. Does the phone work if you plug into the socket at the rear?

Only one socket and its the master...

The Wiki is very helpful however, it seems to only relate to the new wiring colours?

No it doesn't. Look at the text under the drawing at the top. It says old wiring colours

 

[Chri5]

Primary pair should be blue and orange, pins 2 and 5 on the line jack.

If you trace the cable from indoors to out you should find another box that conerts the xternal cable to the internal cable that your trying to 'mend'.

Most external wires from BT are either ug or drop wire, at that junction you will have only 2 wires from the choice of blue, orange, green, brown. Those are the ones to terminate on pins 2 and 5.

I trust you are using a knone or idc tool to terminate, and that on the master socket your are terminating on the very inside (BT side) not the customer wiring side which is on the pull off face.

 

[Rusty10]

Once again thank you very much for the replies.

I am using a plastic terminator (supplied with an extension socket that I fitted in our previous house).

I have connected Blue-2 Orange -5 still have ADSL and still no dial tone.

Strange thing is when I was reconnecting with the socket and splitter in when the ADSL light on the router was off the dial tone was available! ADSL ligt on no dial tone, strange...?!

Is this a job for the phone company?

Cheers

 

[bernardgreen]

If you are working on the incoming drop wire then you need to find the active pair. Colours used will depend on the age of the cable.

Connecting both the correct wires to the phone is necessary for the phone to work.

ADSL will, in some circumstances work with only one of the correct wires connected to the ADSL modem.

The correct pair coming from the exchange will have about 50 volts DC on them so if you have a voltmeter you can find them that way.

Alternatively ring it from another phone and short the pairs out one at a time until the ringing tone stops. The pair shorted at that time is the pair you need.

 

[Chri5]

I think BT charge about £100, so lets try and sort this out !

Could you please post a picture of the line jack unit, and the terminations.

the above is an NTE5 master seen from the inside towards the face.

The connections for the BT line side are the terminal screws, the connections via the IDC / push in with tool are for wiring on to other sockets in the house.

When the face lower is removed, it disconnects the internal wiring to leave a test point for BT that is not connected to the internal wiring. BT do this to seperate their service from any 3rd party internal wiring.

As mentioned BT normally provide service on old colours blue and orange.

The cable you have with (blue, orange, green and brown) is internal spec and I would imagine that outside there is an external cable with a junction box that then converts on to the cable you have in the house.

have you checked for this junction and confirmed what cable core colours are terminated ?

Since you only have 4 wires I would also suggest you plug a phone in to the BT test point inside the line jack and then try a combo of any 2 wires terminated on the screw terminals.

So if you have tried blue and orange, try blue + green, blue + brown, orange + green, orange + brown, green + brown.

One combo should give dial tone


Finally what happens when you ring the number from another phone / mobile- if it's ringing then at least you know the BT exchange is pumping out the service. If you get nu (number unavailable) tone you will have to use BT to get the service back on !

 

[Rusty10]

Guys thanks a million for trying to help us out all very much appreciated

The socket is old, so not as sophisticated as your picture more like this http://www.google.co.uk/imgres?imgu...ndsp=19&ved=1t:429,r:15,s:15&biw=1280&bih=620 .

When we ring the number from a mobile you can hear a ringing tone, but the house phone remains silent!

Will look for a junction box and try to get some piccies!

 

[Chri5]

That's a 1990's pre NTE 2/1A (if memory serves...).

Blue 2 orange 5 is normal, do make sure the wires are pushed firmed in to the jaws of the IDC terminals. When looking side on, the core end should be at the bottom of the jaws.
The IDC works on the cable being pushed down into metal jaws that are sharp enough to cut the sheath to make the contact.

Sit down with just a normal handset (that you know works!) and plug that and that alone (no piggy back cables, or adsl filter / b-band) in to the socket.

Terminate the blue on 2, then (in turn) the orange, green and brown.

Each time listen for dial tone- as mentioned in my previous post, if there's dial tone on the wires you will find in by systematically testing each combination.

Other than that, buy another master line jack from a shed and try that.

You really should inspect the complete cable route back, trace the cable and see where it goes externally. How does the line come in to the property ?

 

[TicklyT]

Older cables with single colour ed wires were around before IDC terminations came into use. Sometimes the insulation on the wires is tougher than the copper, so inserting them in IDC terminals cuts the ire but leaves the insulation intact - the complete opposite of the desired result!

The IDC terminals can lose their 'springiness' after a few terminations, and fail to cut the wire insulation.

To test with a meter, earth one meter probe (a convenient water pipe or radiator etc will do nicely) and look for a wire at -50 Volts DC with respect to that earth with the other probe.

Once you have found that wire, connect one meter probe to it, and use the other probe to look for a wire at +50 Volts to the first wire.

[Pedant]The line jack in the piccie is a LJU 3/1A - the label stuck to it is a bit of a giveaway (electrically identical to a 2/1A, but it has a bigger face plate). [/Pedant]

 

[Rusty10]

Thanks for all the help.

As mentioned looks like the 'jaws' were not sharp enough to cut the cable sheath.

All working now, both ADSL and phone

Very much appreciated

 

[ban-all-sheds]

As mentioned looks like the 'jaws' were not sharp enough to cut the cable sheath.

Have you got a proper punch-down tool, or only one of those plastic s***e jobs they package with phone sockets?

 

[Chri5]

Once again thank you very much for the replies.

I am using a plastic terminator (supplied with an extension socket that I fitted in our previous house).

Not the pro way, I'd rather DIYers used screw terminal LJU's rather than throw away plastic terminators. Although they are better than a flat headed screw driver being used to term IDC

 

[ban-all-sheds]

I am using a plastic terminator (supplied with an extension socket that I fitted in our previous house).

Oops - missed that. Sorry.

1. They are s***e.
2. They are s***e when new, and are meant to be disposable.
3. They are even more s***e if you keep them and use them for a 2nd socket.
4. This is now the 2nd house in which you've needed a punch-down tool, so to go with all the other tools you have because you know that as a homeowner you will need screwdrivers/hammers/saws/knives/pliers/etc/etc/etc, get something like this: