Pipe hanger / joist clip ??

[Ookysoft]

Unless, of course, I'd not be conforming to a Standard, is there such an animal as a Joist Clip?

The scenario being; that the wooden ground floor to a house is boards supported on joists, them selves supported on brick/block pillars. So rather than notch the joists to take pipes across, I'd want to run the pipework under the joists.

I know there are nailable clips but nailing the underside of a joist would be awkward and the weight of the pipe would be a constant tension on the nail.... I'd be looking for a clip which can be nailed or screwed into the side of a joist, enableing the pipe to hang below - with, maybe, a range of sizes of loop, to take care of 15/22mm pipe or the same plus insulation.

How's this normally done? Or doesn't it conform so you have to go the notched route?

I did see 1 place where the pipe was laid loose on bricks on the concrete pad under the building - NOT satisfactory by any means!

 

[Biggles..]

band strapping/galv banding, create a loop but twist flat the ends against the timber

 

[Nige F]

foam lag the pipe....hold with a bit of old 2.5mm twin+ earth cable from the sparkies tot box, wrapped round and nailed to joist

 

[tincup]

Cable ties work well.
Dont forget to insulate pipes.

 

[muggles]

You'll get several different answers to this, but this is the way I think is "doing it properly"...

Work out how many pipes you need to run, the sizes of the pipes, and the distances that need to be between them. Then work out the distance between the outside edges of the two outer pipes in your row. Add two inches, and cut some timber to this length. I cut one piece for every joist. The timber you use will depend on how you want to fix it - I use 2×1 and screw it to the underside of the joists, if you want to screw / nail to the side then you'll need 3×1 or 3×2

Mark out your clip spacings on each piece timber you've cut, remembering to make your first mark an inch plus half the diameter of the first clip from the end. Screw standard snap-over clips into the timber (on the 2" side of the 2×1 or the 1"/2" side of the 3×1 / 3×2) at the marked points. Pilot drill the timber at either end, and in the middle if you think you need it, ready to take screws later.

Measure from a convenient datum such as one of the dwarf walls holding the joists up (they should be reasonably straight) to where you want one end of the timber to end up, so that your clips will end up in the right position, and mark every joist at the same distance.

Screw your timber-with-clips to the underside / side of the joists, making sure they're all the same way round if you have different size clips!

Put your pipes under the floor, snap them into the clips and remember to snap the top of the clip over to hold them in place (they will hang there by themselves while you do this so no need to be trying to hold them with one hand and snap the clip over with the other).

This is, I admit, a more time consuming method than those previously suggested here but the end result is IMHO a vastly more professional-looking job that will be secure and shouldn't have any height variations due to you not quite getting the banding/cable tie/pinched T+E the same height on every joist, and it is the one and only method I will entertain the idea of using.

Incidentally your joists are almost certainly 4" and cannot be notched anyway under building regs, so well done for looking for alternative methods! And as has been mentioned previously, remember to insulate those pipes.

 

[griggs]

Another vote for galv banding / T & E

 

[Ookysoft]

Hmmm!

I kinda feel the belt & braces method is the more professional idea, however the jury-rigged hangers are deffo going to be faster and the more popular method.

I'll leave the 'client' decide! Heh!

Nice to know I'm not missing a particular clip/hanger for the job!

 

[neds]

Also you need to be extremely careful making any solid fixing of the pipe to the joist, such as clips.The floor will have far more traffic increasing the likeliness of fracture to any part of the pipe, joints even so. Some of the 'looser' methods of fixing would be ideal to allow some movement which is independent of the floor joists. Also firm fixings will increase any sound transfer from piping.

 

[muggles]

Must be a market for the kind of clip you're after, I'm surprised nobody makes it.

OK, so of the guys watching this thread, who would buy pipe clips that could be screwed into the side of the joist to hang pipes below, IE to fit this application, if they were available and around the same price as 'normal' clips? I would.

 

[muggles]

Also you need to be extremely careful making any solid fixing of the pipe to the joist, such as clips.The floor will have far more traffic increasing the likeliness of fracture to any part of the pipe, joints even so

Do you consider that this might also be relevant with notching and drilling methods? Personally I think it amounts to the same thing, and we notch and drill all the time

 

[Ookysoft]

There is a market in The States... they have various pipe hangers available - the kind of thing I was looking for is a :- http://doitbest.com/Pipe+straps+and+hangers-Oatey+Scs-model-33764-doitbest-sku-402737.dib Though plastic or galvanized strapping and a nail seems to be the universal method!

 

[Biggles..]

Also you need to be extremely careful making any solid fixing of the pipe to the joist, such as clips.The floor will have far more traffic increasing the likeliness of fracture to any part of the pipe, joints even so

Do you consider that this might also be relevant with notching and drilling methods? Personally I think it amounts to the same thing, and we notch and drill all the time

the problem with notching is that's it's no longer deemed an acceptable method,especially on new build where the joist are sized to the bare minimum for the load.I beams are becoming more common with knockouts and drilling is the only acceptable method regardless of what the books tell you depth and span wise they don't allow for the sturtural loading of
modern beams.

 

[muggles]

News to me that it's no longer acceptable, as far as I'm aware it's still allowed within building regs and until someone can show me something that says otherwise I shall continue to do it, within the accepted areas of the joist of course. As for joists being sized to the bare minimum, that's a problem for the builders and structural engineers, as far as I'm concerned they should be sizing them to allow for notching whilst it is still allowed under the regs, and it's not up to me to be deciding whether they have or not. Drilling for copper pipe requires oversized holes for the installation pipework and the use of many many couplers on long runs, as you cannot possibly get a continuous length of copper through the middle of multiple joists without bending the cr@p out of it.

I do recognise of course that I-beams cannot be notched, that is a bridge I will cross when I have to, which so far has been never. For standard joists, as far as I can see, when installing copper pipework notching is still the only sensible method and until it's outlawed officially I will continue to do it. I'm a plumbing and heating engineer, not a structural engineer, and as far as I'm concerned I can't and shouldn't be expected to do anything other than what is laid down in official paperwork, because it's not my job to decide whether a specific size of joist should or should not have been used to cross a particular span.

 

[Ookysoft]

Ooh! A whole different can of worms........

 

[Biggles..]

If your altering the structural integrity of an item you are repsonsible for your actions and should know the effect it may cause.just because an out of date guidence book told you you can notch in certain area doesn't actually mean that under modern building practices you can.

New build is drill only,you'd be removed of any site in this area for attempting to butcher a joist to create a notch regardless of where you put it.

Have a quick think to your self,apart from gas which even new build is 9 out of times external when was the last full copper instal you did(new build) ,apart from speed why else do they use plastic(cos it ain't cheaper).