PIR on rental property

[Doggit]

Sorry EFL, I meant to write "recommended to be done" rather than just done, but you can be as sarcastic as you like, I don't mind.

 

[EFLImpudence]

 

[ban-all-sheds]

It is not up to NICEIC to recommend anything.

Yes it is.

"Mandate", I would agree with you, but why do you think they should not make recommendations? Who do you think may?

 

[ban-all-sheds]

A visual inspection should be conducted every six months to make sure the tenants are keeping the property in a good condition, and you should be able to spot if anythings damaged, or they've been making changes that would require an new EICR.

That is good advice.

But is it up to Doggit to give it?

 

[EFLImpudence]

No, it is not up to Doggit but it was good advice for fellow landlords and he does not act like he is in charge and pretend to mandate while having no authority.

 

[oldbutnotdead]

As has already been said, in England and Wales there is no statutory requirement for a landlord to have annual safety checks on electrical equipment (unlike gas).

However as a landlord you have a Common Law duty of care to make sure the property is ‘safe’ which includes the electrics and electrical appliances that you supply. The Landlord & Tenant Act 1985 requires electrical equipment to be safe at the start of every tenancy and maintained in a safe condition throughout the tenancy. The Housing Act 2004 also covers electrical hazards.

If you have a commercial property or HMO, the Regulatory Reform Fire Safety Order 2005 creates a statutory duty for the assigned ‘responsible person’ to do annual Fire Safety Risk Assessments, which include electrical safety risks.

So in summary, it’s all about liability. If nothing goes wrong, nobody is going to do anything. However if something goes wrong the regulations are enforced by the Health & Safety Executive who may prosecute you and also the tenant may make a civil claim against you.

In the event of something happening, ‘due diligence’ may be accepted as a defence. You would need documented evidence to show you took ‘reasonable steps’ to avoid committing an offence. So do you feel what you are doing is reasonable? If your mate did some electrical work on a old house, it’s never been inspected and you can see some wiring that looks dodgy to you, then I’d suggest not. If you have a new build that’s not very old, no alterations to the wiring, it all looks modern and undamaged and you supplied brand new appliances with instruction manuals, then in my view that’s reasonable.

Remember it doesn’t have to be something serious, tenants have been known to chance “your installation damaged by new iPhone”. Being able to say “here’s my pack of documentation relating to the electrical installation” enables you to shift the onus to the tenant to show it was your electric installation and not their dodgy Chinese charger...

All the above with a chip supper. For what it'll cost (assuming no major defects are uncovered) you'd be mad not to, if any major defects are revealed you'll be glad that you did. Area for discussion- old consumer units with rewirable fuses are not prohibited in houses (you wouldn't install one now) BUT with tenants in the place instead of owner/occupier a blown fuse may well require a callout to the landlord/agent to rectify. If you've got a relatively modern board with MCBs and RCDs (or RCBOs) then don't fall for any stuff about it having to be replaced with 17th ed metal box Just Because.

 

[ban-all-sheds]

No, it is not up to Doggit but it was good advice for fellow landlords and he does not act like he is in charge and pretend to mandate

Why are you talking about pretend mandates when what NICEIC were doing was offering advice?

while having no authority.

Doggit has no authority either.

 

[Doggit]

I'm a small landlord, and I've got three properties in a selective licencing scheme, and a house outside it. I have to have the EICR renewed ever 5 years for the flats in the selective licencing area, and no ones bothered me for the property outside it, and that one hasn't been checked in 15 years. I keep an eye on things on a change of tenants, and deal with any problems, and if anyone thinks I'm doing things wrong, is more than welcome to make suggestions.

I'm only passing on my experiences, not mandating or telling anyone what they have to do.

 

[ban-all-sheds]

Doggit - I wasn't being critical of you (if that's what you thought).

I was trying to get EFLI to see the inconsistencies in claiming that an electrical trade organisation has no authority to give advice whilst approving of a private individual doing the same, and in conflating the giving of advice with the issuing of instructions.

 

[EFLImpudence]

It does say "it is recommended" but it is, along with the rest of the document, in my opinion, formatted to look like all are legal reqirements.
That is the heading.

It does not say "NICEIC recommend" and you know full well that NICEIC frequently acts outside its remit as a trade organisation.

 

[ban-all-sheds]

It does say "it is recommended" but it is, along with the rest of the document, in my opinion, formatted to look like all are legal reqirements.
That is the heading.

Yes, the heading says "legal requirements".

Does it then go on to say anything false, or misleading, about legal requirements?

It does not say "NICEIC recommend"

If it's on a NICEIC website surely it must be something which NICEIC are recommending? Unless they are representing that "CURRENT LEGAL REQUIREMENTS" text as being independent, third-party etc.

Are they?

and you know full well that NICEIC frequently acts outside its remit as a trade organisation.

They certainly do, but not in this case, surely?

You may argue about what they advise, but surely not about the basic principle of them giving advice to their members?

 

[Doggit]

If it was a "legal" requirement, I'm sure someone would have jumped on me from a great height by now. The selective licencing scheme stipulates that I have to have it done every 5 years for the licence to be valid, but no one has commented as to the other property, so if it's legal requirement, then who's checking up to make sure you're "legal". Or is it that you'd get done if there was an issue, but you can get away with it till then.

 

[ban-all-sheds]

It is not a legal requirement, and nobody, not even NICEIC, is claiming otherwise.

 

[oldbutnotdead]

It is not a legal requirement, and nobody, not even NICEIC, is claiming otherwise.

Indeed. The letting agent looking after my place recommended getting an EICR purely as an MOT type evidence of due diligence, reasonable care etc. They didn't insist that they did it- offered to sort it if I wanted but I arranged my own.

 

[ban-all-sheds]

It is like many things - there is a legal requirement to make provision of some sort, and a way to do that which could not be called into question, but that way of doing it is not, per se, a legal requirement.