Planning/Building Regulations Advice

[Jack Baker]

Hi All

I am after some advice if possible.
We are midway through the purchase of a new house. However we have now run into a massive obstacle which could jeopardise the purchase.

The house we are buying has planning permission approved. This is for both a ground level extension and first floor extension. The ground floor extensions have been completed and the first floor has yet to be started.

Our solicitor has obviously asked for building regulations for the carried out works, but the sellers are unable to provide this as the project is incomplete.
They are also unable to obtain any indemnity insurance for the same reason.

Does anyone have any advice for us as to what we can do next? Our solicitor Has no idea and has gone back to our mortgage lender to tell them the current situation.

Appreciate any help.
Thanks
Jack

 

[^woody^]

If the works are in progress, and a building regulation application in, and the inspections done relative to the progress, and there are no issues then there is no problem and you don't need any insurances.

If no building regulation application in, then one needs to go in and it be inspected up to the progress of the work.

Your solicitor is a bit clueless - literally as well as actually, and is likely more concerned with their own negligence insurance than advising you.

Have you had an independent survey, if so is the work as well as the property in good condition?

 

[Jack Baker]

Hi Woody

Thanks for you response.
To go into a bit more depth, the planning was for a multi-storey development. The developments at ground level have been complete and as far as I can see inline with the submitted planning.
The property is a bungalow and still is. No start has been made to the first floor modifications other than a staircase which is currently going to the existing loft space.

I will give the relevant council planning department a call tomorrow to ensure that a building application has been submitted and if so what progress inspections have been completed.

Regarding my solicitor I think you’re bang on. I don’t think he has come across anything like this before (mid project sales) and has simply just palmed it back to my mortgage lender for them to look into.

We have had an independent survey carried out. This was a home buyers survey which was offered to us by our mortgage lender. All returned fine other than a few little things like drain pipe has leaves in it blah blah blah.

The property in my view has been completed to a very high standard. It was built by the current occupiers with the view to obviously living there. They are moving abroad due to health issues. But that obviously isn’t enough from a legal view to ignore.

Is there anything else you would recommend?
Appreciate your time.
Jack

 

[^woody^]

All you need to do is confirm with the council's building control ( or private inspector if used) that there is an application, and that the inspections relevant to that stage of completion have been done. You don't need chapter and verse, and probably won't get it, but just need to know that the work has passed the inspection.

The works may be mid- inspection currently, so see if it's worth having the work inspected up to date.

If all is well with the work, then all is well to go ahead and complete.

Bear in mind that part completed work should not be occupied or used unless it's deemed sufficiently complete and safe. There may also be insurance implications for part completed or ongoing works. This would normally be an opportunity to negotiate a discount, but it may be too far gone for that now.

Above all, this is not as big a drama as your solicitor is making it out to be.

 

[Jack Baker]

All you need to do is confirm with the council's building control ( or private inspector if used) that there is an application, and that the inspections relevant to that stage of completion have been done. You don't need chapter and verse, and probably won't get it, but just need to know that the work has passed the inspection.

The works may be mid- inspection currently, so see if it's worth having the work inspected up to date.

If all is well with the work, then all is well to go ahead and complete.

Bear in mind that part completed work should not be occupied or used unless it's deemed sufficiently complete and safe. There may also be insurance implications for part completed or ongoing works. This would normally be an opportunity to negotiate a discount, but it may be too far gone for that now.

Above all, this is not as big a drama as your solicitor is making it out to be.

Really appreciate your time and input. I will go back with this to my solicitor tomorrow. Hopefully the mortgage lenders legal team will forward on the same information.

I will keep you updated if interested.

 

[mrrusty]

If you hit a brick wall with your lender, try a different mortgage company - perhaps a local small one who you can actually talk to. I can imagine the big ones can't get past the tick box - computer says no mentality.

 

[^woody^]

The brick wall would be the solicitor, as they are ther ones who should be advising - normally advising both parties. However it's all too common for conveyance solicitors to know very little about the things they are conveyancing, and do all too little advising.

 

[johnny2007]

Are you using one of the conveyancing firms from the internet?
They're cheap for a reason.
All the process is done by clueless admin until last stage.
A real conveyancing solicitor, the one you can actually talk to if needed, would have no problem with this.

 

[Jack Baker]

Are you using one of the conveyancing firms from the internet?
They're cheap for a reason.
All the process is done by clueless admin until last stage.
A real conveyancing solicitor, the one you can actually talk to if needed, would have no problem with this.

We are using a conveyancing solicitor that was pushed to us by the estate agent.
We used the same company for the sale of our house.
I speak with him regularly via phone and email, I am unsure of his experiance as to me based on what your guys are saying, this is really something he hsould know about.
I have emailled him this morning with the information Woody provided yesterday, so hopefully I should get a response at somepoint today/tomorrow.

 

[mrrusty]

Our solicitor Has no idea and has gone back to our mortgage lender to tell them the current situation.

It'll be the mortgage lender that is the problem, if any - will they lend on a part finished project? It isn't the solicitors decision - they are just acting for you - you are free to buy whatever you want, and if you were a cash buyer, you could buy a falling down wreck with subsidence over an old coal mine if you wanted to. There is certainly no law that says whatever you buy has to be to a particular standard.

It sounds like this slightly non-standard situation needs some "can do" thinking. It's not a dissimilar situation we had a few years ago where we were angling after buying a house that had been condemned by a structural survey - our local BS were co-operative in looking at flexible ways they could lend and also fund the necessary re-build. We did set up the lending facility, but in the end it fell through because we got cold feet.

Our own recent purchase was complicated because we were buying out wife's siblings for a house she part owned ( so was named on both sides of the conveyance). We paid the same small building society their fee premium (for an off-panel solicitor) to use our own one-woman-band solicitor for our bit (she used to do work for them - and had for us with the same BS - but could no longer be on their "panel" because they had prohibited single person practices). The BS insisted on using their tame conveyancing factory for the building society legals. They were so Fg useless with the non-standard situation, that in the end the CEO of the BS threw his hands up, made a decision to break his own rules and used our solicitor for the whole thing - our building society contact was one management level down from the CEO and you can actually talk to them!

 

[jeds]

The key to this is status of the building regulations - application started or not? If started, all you need is an up to date progress report from the inspector.

 

[Jack Baker]

A little update.
I won’t lie I am now completely confused and have no idea what to do next.

Can anyone shed any light or give any advice with what I can go back with?

Appreciate any help.

 

[jeds]

I have never heard of or known building inspectors only inspect a building on completion - with no interim inspections. In fact, scrap that because it is bullsh1t. Nobody can make a judgement on the quality of a building by looking solely at the finished project and I don't believe for one second that that it is the policy of any local authority building control. Contact the local authority and ask them direct?

 

[mrrusty]

I'll save you the time. Quick look on Folkestone building control says under building notices " A fee is usually payable for site inspections, being a single payment which covers all the necessary site visits until satisfactory completion of the work in accordance with the Building Regulations.".

This is really a sellers problem, because with a half finished not-signed-off project they are going to hit the same problem with most buyers (all who need a mortgage). I think you are going to have to decide how much you want this house. If you really want it you are going to have to find a lender who will cooperate with the actual status - I doubt you will get anywhere quickly trying to get that elusive sign-off from the vendors. Perhaps a "development" type mortgage with a retention until the extension is complete. There will be a mechanism to get the regularisation once you are the owner. It's a mess. However, property does get sold all the time that is not structurally sound, uninhabitable, - you just need to get the right funding structures in place. The sellers are going to have to discount a fair bit to move it quickly or get the certifications sorted.

 

[^woody^]

The building control regime is defined by law, and there are are statutory inspection stages depending on the type of work. The inspection stages occur whether it's a full plans or a notice application.

For an extension, there would be an inspection for the foundation trench (to see if it's deep and wide enough, and the ground condition), then an inspection for floor damproofing and insulation, the oversite concrete/floor, and DPC and drainage. Then other inspections for the main structure.

It is possible for a builder to take pictures of the stages if the inspector agrees, or several things can be inspected in a later single inspection - as long as those things are left open an visible. But either way the things need to be seen and recorded as being satisfactory.

The builder would know this, so it hinges on whether the statement is genuine and that was what they were told, or if it's been made up to hide something.

Have you or your advisor made contact with the council directly regarding the work? Has the application file been checked? You should have done that by now, and you should now also ask the council's building control team if the vendor's statement is correct, or was correct at the time.