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Planning permission for a detached garage -issue with concrete blocks against the neighbour's fence?

Discussion in 'Building Regulations and Planning Permission' started by Dontblamethetools, 5 Jul 2020.

  1. Dontblamethetools

    Dontblamethetools

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    Hi all

    The story is.. I'm planning to build a detached garage, having checked the permitted development rules and building regs requirements etc I decided I'd go for the permitted development option but accepted I'd have to keep the total height to a maximum of 2.5 metres (as the garage will be right up against the boundary). I've since dug the trench and poured the footings. I've now talked myself out of the idea of keeping to the 2.5 metres height limit as I really want a dual pitched roof and whilst I could have one with an extremly shallow pitch of around 1/12, it probably wouldn't make a great roof, wouldn't look great, would require more maintenance, would put more stress on the roof timbers and if we were to get snow I dread to think.. I've now come round to the idea of applying for planning permission, this way hopefully I can have a decent pitched roof and with that some additional space for storage. I'm planning to apply for the eaves to be at 2.4m and the ridge 3.25m (around 3m would be fine but 3.25m would be ideal, if the planning officer suggests lower then I can amend to around 3m total height).

    The question I have now is.. 2 of the walls will be right up against the boundary where there is a 1.9m fence as I won't be able to see these walls at all I was planning on using concrete blocks for those walls, the other 2 walls I plan to use facing bricks. The estate was built in around 2005, all the houses are built from brick (some red, some beige). The neighbour on the side of the eaves will only be able to see about 1 block (if I use fascia board), the neighbour on the gable side will be able to see about 2 blocks + the blocks forming the gable. The reason I'm using concrete blocks on those walls is to keep costs down, it may save around £1,000. Does anyone have any insight as to what the planning office may think about this? I can speak to the neighbours directly to get their views but planning permission will be a separate issue.

    Thanks for taking the time to read this and appreciate any advice.
     
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  3. mrrusty

    mrrusty

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    Bare blocks are not suitable on their own for an external skin. As far as planning goes, I would just show the dimensions etc and restrict the material description to a vague "brick and block construction". It might just go through unqueried and you can use what you want where you want. If they query specific aspects materials, you can then decide what you want to do. You could clad the blocks, or render them.

    Also, if you suggest they will be clad, it might just take you a very long time to finish the cladding...
     
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  4. ^woody^

    ^woody^

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    Lay 3 course of bricks on the one side, and 6 on the other above the fence line.
     
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  5. mrrusty

    mrrusty

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    It might also be worth speaking to the neighbours and explaining an eaves at 2.3/2.4 with a pitch roof (requiring planning) might actually look far nicer from their side than a 2.5 pent-roof garage where they would have a 2.5 wall tight to the fence that you can build under PD - you could even explain you have decided to go to planning because you were thinking about them, and didn't want to impose the 2.5 wall...might head off any silly objections.

    I'm part way through a similar project 2.3 eaves, 3.4 ridge garage is 3.3 wide. 1m from boundary with PP. (silly neighbour objected on "loss of light" but it got ignored because there were no grounds)
     
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  6. Dontblamethetools

    Dontblamethetools

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    Thanks for the quick and helpful replies guys. I was thinking along these lines.

    Regarding the use of bare blocks, I had thought about this and realise they may get a bit damp, but tbh I can probably live with that as I won't be storing much in there. Would there be anything else I should consider besides the blocks getting a bit damp?
    Thanks for the suggestions on keeping the application vague, I had worried myself that they may just refuse it and then I'm not sure what happens with re applying and the fees etc, but that'd be a bit harsh I think.

    That's a good idea, I'm sure that would keep the neighbours happy enough and would keep costs down too. I'm not sure if the planning office would accept just the courses above the fence line being brick (even though no one would be able to see the bare blocks), but one the other hand once I've got planning permission, if I were to use brick above the fence line and blocks below the fence line I can't see it ever getting questioned.

    As I wouldn't be able to render the blocks, but they were shielded a little from the weather due to the fence (around 4 inches away) would there be any other issues besides possibility of a little damp?

    Thanks again all
     
  7. Dontblamethetools

    Dontblamethetools

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    That's also exactly what I'm thinking, there's no buildings with a pent roof on the whole estate, and if my neighbour were to be building something I'd rather slightly lower eaves and a pitched roof, would look much nicer, especially from my upstairs windows. I'll definitely be speaking to them before the application goes in.

    Good luck with your build, I hope all is going well :)
     
  8. mattylad

    mattylad

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    Where is rainwater going to flow from your roof?

    If it flows towards the neighbours then putting a gutter on over the boundary will be trespassing.
     
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  10. ^woody^

    ^woody^

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    Yes they would, there is no reason not to.
     
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  11. Dontblamethetools

    Dontblamethetools

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    Well I'd hope we'd be on good enough terms for that not to be an issue, the gutter won't actually be over the boundary but when fitting it my hands might be for a few minutes. I'm sure they'd much rather there was a gutter in place rather than water pouring down the fence. If that's the case I'll counter that argument with the issue of their plants growing a few feet over the boundary on my side lol
     
  12. Dontblamethetools

    Dontblamethetools

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    I agree, there's no reason there should be an issue as only I'll be able to see it from inside the garage. I just thought they'd rigidly stick to the materials having to match that of other properties whether you can see them or not, but that would just be silly.

    I'm now wondering how much benefit i.e cost saving there is in using blocks, if I look around and try and source cheaper bricks for the sides I was planning to use blocks, this would also stop any worry over un protected bare blocks.
     
  13. ^woody^

    ^woody^

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    That typically applies when attaching an extension or suchlike to a house.

    But in any case when required, the overriding criteria is that the new building blends in, "safeguard the visual amenity" - ie what it looks like. And so only what is seen needs to be specified to achieve that outcome.
     
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  14. Dontblamethetools

    Dontblamethetools

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    Update: I've now applied for planning permission, and I've decided to scrap the idea of using concrete blocks for the parts of the wall you can't see.

    My next question is how similar does the new brick have to be to my house brick? On my planning application I've said it will be "similar".

    I've read some of the decision/approval letters for other people building detached garages and one of the conditions is always:

    "3) The materials to be used on the external surfaces of the extension hereby permitted shall match those of the existing building in type, size, colour and texture.

    Reason - To ensure the appearance of the building to be extended is not adversely affected by the materials to be used in the construction of the extension, pursuant to saved policies DC1.1, DC1.2 and DC1.4 of the Unitary Development Plan for the City of Manchester and policy DM1 of the Manchester Core Strategy."

    -It always refers to extensions even when the application is soley for a detached garage. I'd like to start sourcing materials and possibly making a start as the only thing I'm waiting for re planning permission is approval for the height to be over 2.5m, besides the height I can build under permitted development. How close do the materials have to be? My house is textured red brick with darker and lighter patches and black bits on the face of the bricks. Some of the neighbours houses are like a sandy buff colour. Could I for instance use a much lighter red/golden colour?
     
  15. mrrusty

    mrrusty

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    I think you are overthinking it. Just put red brick!
     
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