Planning permission required again-Help

[sauravrc]

We applied for a two storey side extension between an existing garage and the existing house. Additionally, the garage roof was going to change to a pitched roof. Planning was granted

To dig the foundation between the existing structures, it was found that the garage wall will come down as it is very old and structurally unsafe.

So we decided to take it down and rebuild garage exactly as per the approved plan. A neighbour complained that garage demolition was not planned. Now the Council officer is asking for a full planning application for the garage which will have the same structure as was the original and the pitched roof.

In essence there is only one wall that needs to be built as the garage door is in the front, Utility wall at the back, one side is the edge of the new building.

As per full application planning guidelines - we are not change the appearance or facade from what was originally granted. A senior officer agreed with us that no additional planning is required but now has changed tone and asked for us to speak to the planning officer who approved the original

So can someone help explain how to counter planning officers decision.

 

[tony1851]

This is yet another example of the self-importance with which planning officers invest themselves.
If you are not changing the appearance, then just get on with it.

 

[^woody^]

If you are not changing the appearance, then just get on with it.

Changing the appearance is exactly what he is doing, and what planning regulations are meant to protect

Lots of people do this with the intention of completely replacing what was there, with something new, and not what was agreed

 

[sauravrc]

The change to the garage appearance (pitched roof) was granted. The garage will still remain a garage with the same internal layout. That is in the original floor plans approved

At planning stage we were not aware of its stability being an issue.

So nothing changes in terms of the appearance of what was already granted. Not sure what will the second application benefit

 

[^woody^]

Are you rebuilding with the exact same materials, colour, texture and style?

 

[rjm2k]

Not sure what will the second application benefit

£££££££

http://www.planningportal.gov.uk/permission/commonprojects/demolition/

Do you have any PD rights in that area?

Does the (new) garage meet the PD requirements?

http://www.planningportal.gov.uk/permission/commonprojects/outbuildings/

What planning existed for the previous garage, if any?

The argument the planners will use is that they approved the changes in the application, NOT what was already existing. They will probably argue that the existing garage may never have got permission if you applied today.

Perhaps someone more in the know can inform us of the re-use of existing plans, ie if you have an approved plan and build to it, once that's done, should you need to demolish and re-build has the existing plan lost its worth so you will need to re-submit the plan even though the exact same property will be built, I guess they will argue yes because policy may have changed in the meantime? So for how long does an application have any value? Is it the expiry date of the permission? So you could build/knock down/re-build as many times as you like within that time but afterwards, the permission becomes worthless as far as replacement goes?

 

[tony1851]

Not sure what will the second application benefit

It will benfit the council because it will keep the planning officers in work.

 

[sauravrc]

I will be using the nearly same bricks etc what was salvaged and some new ones which look very close to original but are not that weathered.

The front of the garage will be the Garage door. so no change to appearance. it meets all the requirements for an outbuilding. None of that changes.

Spoke to planaid and they said that I should build the garage and they will happily fight my case against the council. Do not want to get into that mode but at the same time I am pedantic about following something that I do not want to do in the first place.

 

[freddiemercurystwin]

Guys, it’s not brain surgery, when you demolish something it’s no longer there. Therefore if the thing you then want to build in its place (even if identical) requires planning permission (had there never been anything in its place ever before) then it needs a permission. There is no hard and fast rule or say a percentage on what constitutes a full rebuild or a repair only case law so unfortunately its down to the planners discretion and interpretation of the rules. It’s another bureaucratic system that has flaws, get over it.

 

[rjm2k]

Guys, it’s not brain surgery, when you demolish something it’s no longer there. Therefore if the thing you then want to build in its place (even if identical) requires planning permission (had there never been anything in its place ever before) then it needs a permission. There is no hard and fast rule or say a percentage on what constitutes a full rebuild or a repair only case law so unfortunately its down to the planners discretion and interpretation of the rules. It’s another bureaucratic system that has flaws, get over it.

Which is why it's important for the OP to find out if they have PD rights which would allow them to build a garage anyway.

The problem will be that even if they have PD rights for the garage, the LA may argue that it's a different garage and therefore the already approved plans will need to be re-submitted to be assessed in the context of the new (identical) garage.

 

[sauravrc]

How do i check if i have PD rights. I have extended my house using the planning permission.

So i thought that I will not have any additional PD rights so that i cannot go on extending by building conservatory etc

Do PD rights go hand in hand with the additional planning as long as i am not using more than 50% of the space


Thanks everyone for your inputs- Will decide which way I go

 

[rjm2k]

You would need to check your deeds/ask the LA to find out if your PD rights were revoked as part of the original build, an article 4 direction, or possibly even part of your new planning application. I would assume that since they are telling you to apply, you don't have PD rights.

How old is the property/estate, is it a conservation or other special area?

 

[sauravrc]

My application does not state that PD rights have been taken away. The property was built in 1960. Not in a conservation area. All houses on our road are different in the look and feel from each other.

Snippet of what was in the decision notice


"The local planning authority has considered the particular circumstances of this planning
application and had regard to the policies and proposals in the London Plan (July 2011), the
saved policies in the adopted Unitary Development Plan (July 2004) as set out below and the
adopted Core Strategy (June 2011). The decision to grant planning permission has
furthermore been taken by the local planning authority, having regard to the Mayor of London’s
Supplementary Planning Guidance and Best Practice Guidance; as well as Government
Planning Policy Guidance and Statements together with all other material considerations,
including comments received in response to third party consultation and the conditions to be
imposed on this planning permission.
On balance, it is considered that the proposal satisfies the Council’s Land Use and
environmental criteria and is in accordance with Policy 8 Sustainable design and construction
and energy efficiency, Policy 15 High quality design for Lewisham of the Core Strategy (June
2011) and Policies URB 3 Urban Design and URB 6 Alterations and Extensions in the
adopted Unitary Development Plan (July 2004).
It is considered that the proposal is appropriate in terms of its form and design and would not
result in material harm to the appearance or character of the surrounding area, or the
amenities of neighbouring occupiers. The proposal is thereby in accordance Policy 8
Sustainable design and construction and energy efficiency, Policy 15 High quality design for
Lewisham of the Core Strategy (June 2011) and Policies URB 3 Urban Design, URB 6
Alterations and Extensions and HSG 12 Residential Extensions in the adopted Unitary
Development Plan (July 2004)"

 

[tony1851]

I

Spoke to planaid and they said that I should build the garage and they will happily fight my case against the council.

I'm sure they would - for a fe£££.

The council can't do anything about it. The worst you would get is a snotty letter saying that your extension is unlawful under the T&CP Act blah blah blah.
They can't issue an enforcement notice because guidelins state that a notice should not be served 'for a minor or technical breach where no harm has ocurred'.

Just stop fetting and get on with it.

 

[sauravrc]

thanks again everone - will get on with it and see how it goes