Planning Refusal, Council considers residential garden to be open countryside.

[LunarLunar]

Need advise…We're in a semi rural location.

Houses up and down the lane have had outbuildings and extensions built. We're proposing to build a garage and office in our garden which so far had been refused. Two neighbours objected. Council indicate its unlikely to be approved because of the 'open countryside' location, even though the proposed site would be blocking our view of unsightly asbestos sheds! And it would have a detrimental impact to our fairly new development. Impact on our direct neighbour, its 95 meters away from his house.

Conservation officer has indicated that we would struggle to get approval for a rear extension. The buildings are not listed but curtilage listed. The other complication is our gardens naturally lay 2 meters higher than the rest of the buildings and surrounding ground. Theres not much we can do about that. Also in the original plans at least 50% is meant to be paddock. The developer laid it all to lawn but the council have said they won't take enforcement action against us all.

We don't want to waste untold amounts of money making new revised applications if they're just going to be refused. Any ideas? Or call it quits.

 

[freddiemercurystwin]

So many variables pretty difficult for us to comment. You could speak with a ‘good’ but not crazy expensive planning consultant who handles appeals if you can find one. They’ll prolly look at the case and consider if it’s worth pursuing. And if they’re good they’ll be honest.

 

[LunarLunar]

I've already got a planning consultant on board. The advice so far is to go with a Lawful development cert. to get clarification on a) the curtilage issue. (there's case law arguing that once agricultural buildings are converted into resi, they then have their own curtilage and shouldn't be classed as curtilage listed) and b) the paddock/ garden issue. Once thats been clarified it will be another planning application.

It looks like its going to be a loooonnng 12months ahead as theres no easy way round it. Any more thoughts?

 

[Nakajo]

What is 'open countryside'? Does it simply mean that the garden is not 'curtilage' for the purposes of PD?

 

[LunarLunar]

Nakajo, I've got no idea. I assumed its because of the rural location. Beyond our garden its open farm land.

 

[LunarLunar]

I guess my main issue with that there no logic to their argument. Why grant permission to convert the buildings in the first place? Other additions to the development were made to increase the footprint of our neighbours house. They're happy to use repeatedly use and refer to this 'paddock land' as being necessary to stop encroachment into the 'open countryside' yet they're not willing to enforce it.

 

[^woody^]

Yes I think you do need to test it, so an LDC is the cheapest way to do that, and opens up the potential to appeal

 

[Nakajo]

I really don't understand the issue here. I'd like to but maybe it's just one of those country matters that must forever remain opaque to us city folk.

 

[noseall]

Consider moving?

 

[LunarLunar]

As far as i can see its LDC is a waste of time if the case officer is going to refuse it anyway. If we can argue the curtilage listing issue then at least we have a standing chance of getting this through.

Consider moving? I guess its an option but theres nothing else in the village thats a suitable alternative. And of course there's the associated costs of moving which make improving our current place the best option for the time being.

 

[LukeB123]

Just a few questions?

Council indicate its unlikely to be approved because of the 'open countryside' location,

Is your property in A specific designated area in terms of Policy? (I.E. Greenbelt? Article 5 land etc) or a local-level policy?

And it would have a detrimental impact to our fairly new development. Impact on our direct neighbour, its 95 meters away from his house.

What "fairly new" development? Is your house a new build? The nearest residential building is 95m away? that seems a little bit unreasonable, but the land levels generally can be an issue as well.

Have you appealed the refusal? (free service)

 

[LunarLunar]

Luke, Specifically designated area; No, not that i know of. Unless being within the curtilage of a grade 2 listed building would fall under this? The manor house is again at least 200m south of the proposed site and we have another building in between us.

Barn conversion, we're curtilage listed as I mentioned up thread. The land levels were another reason for the refusal especially after the two objections. Anything we put up there will be overbearing but we figured as its 95 meters away from the closest neighbour the council might have conceded on this.

After the refusal, we felt we really had to take time out and re-think our strategy. From the advice we received it seemed like the better option to re-draw and make a new submission rather than spend months appealing. It certainly came as a shock as the objectors were very underhand in their objecting but c'est la vie. Our next plan was a LDC but i'm not convinced how useful thats going to be. Sorry for sounding a tad cynical but the consultants were paying have a vested interest in this being protracted. Thats why i'm keen on hearing other opinions.

 

[Nakajo]

I still don't get it. Which buildings are 'not listed but curtilage listed'?

 

[PTS2]

200m? You're joking.

Planners don't like something so they make objections up as they go along to block it. Are the objectors mates of somebody?

 

[LunarLunar]

The development is a cluster of barns which are curtilage listed due to the fact they are considered part of the main manor house which is Grade 2 listed. Now these were once cattle sheds, not buildings of any historical significance. The barns were then sold off to a developer back in 2010, I believe and subsequently converted in to separate dwellings. What we've ascertained so far, as part of the original planning approval PD rights were revoked. So thats ruled out. Our only option is another planning application which the council have indicated will most likely be refused.

Hope that makes it clearer?.