Plate Warmers

[Psyclist]

The guys in our kitchen have 3 plate warming units which since I started have had the wrong bulbs in.

They use the R7S type halogen bulbs, but should have the jacketed type and since I started I've mentioned it to them and the GM several times and explained the risk of them popping over food, but nobody listened until it happened just a few weeks back and all the food around the plate warmer had to be binned. The head chef went berserk about it, but I was able to offer a smug grin and say I told you so.

Nevertheless they've now decided to listen and want the proper bulbs.

Only problem is I'm not sure what power bulbs I need. The bulbs are available in 300 and 500 Watt.

Being 6 bulbs in each unit, I've worked that out as being 7.5A and 12.5A respectively.

Am I correct in thinking the latter is too high to use with a standard 13A safety plug? I know it's still .5A off, but seems too much or too close to me.

Unfortunately I've got no documentation for the warmers whatsoever, and the bulbs already being used have been a variation of wattages.

Can anyone tell me if I'm right or not please?

Thanks!

Kristian

 

[bernardgreen]

12.5A is not too high to use with a standard 13A safety plug in a single socket but the life time of the plug may be limited. Some makes of plug and / or socket get warm and start to deteriorate quickly when operate near to 13 amps, ( some cheapo's start to fail at 5 amps ).

Plugging two loads of 12.5A ( 25 total ) into a double socket is NOT a good idea.

As to replacement lamps...... a hotel owner friend had a similar problem a few years ago and found it easier ( or cheaper in the long term ) to replace the lamps with a panel type heater without glass. Possibly the environmental safety officer influenced his decision, I cannot recall the details.

 

[Psyclist]

You wouldn't have any details on the replacement heaters would you? Just so I could have a look into it and see whether it would be an option for us.

The bulbs I'm looking to replace them with are R7S bulbs, but they have a quartz jacket on them to stop them shattering all over the food if they do go 'Pop!'.

We have had a problem with them melting the plugs and sockets and just after I typed the first message before, I was called to the kitchen coz the plug off the same warmer was smoking and on inspection it's Donald Ducked the plug and socket again, so I'll have to replace them too now.

All the bulbs in that one warmer are 300W bulbs though so shouldn't be a massive draw through the plug and socket. I've checked the terminations and had our electrician check them too and they're fine, so I can't understand why we keep having this problem with the sockets and plugs.

 

[ban-all-sheds]

I was called to the kitchen coz the plug off the same warmer was smoking and on inspection it's Donald Ducked the plug and socket again, so I'll have to replace them too now.

1) This is a place of work.

2) You are not an electrician.

3) Don't go anywhere near inspecting things, let alone replacing sockets.

 

[Psyclist]

Thanks for that Ban-all-sheds. Really helpful advice.

Seems ironic coming from someone who's not only normally so outspoken against irellevant and unhelpful remarks and comments but has a signature that completely goes against your last comment.

All I wanted to know was what power bulbs would be best suited to the application, or do I need a 17th Edition certificate, Part P registration and 75 years of "proper" experience to so much as set my eyes on an outlet let alone change a lightbulb now?

 

[bernardgreen]

You wouldn't have any details on the replacement heaters would you? Just so I could have a look into it and see whether it would be an option for us.

Probably not as the hotel was modernised two years ago and no longer has a "hot" food buffet area.

They might have been ceramic heaters ( try a google on Neoceram ).

 

[JAmmmmm]

Thanks for that Ban-all-sheds. Really helpful advice.

Seems ironic coming from someone who's not only normally so outspoken against irellevant and unhelpful remarks and comments but has a signature that completely goes against your last comment.

All I wanted to know was what power bulbs would be best suited to the application, or do I need a 17th Edition certificate, Part P registration and 75 years of "proper" experience to so much as set my eyes on an outlet let alone change a lightbulb now?

This should be intresting...

Plugs & sockets melting and smoking, and you think that's not a serious enough problem/fire hazard to call a professional.

 

[riveralt]

I know you don't have any documentation but are you able to identify the make/model serial number etc from the plate on the unit.
Give the manufacturers a phone or search their website.

 

[ban-all-sheds]

Thanks for that Ban-all-sheds. Really helpful advice.

Which you, and your employer, will sorely wish you had heeded should anybody employed there come to harm as a result of you doing electrical work.

Seems ironic coming from someone who's not only normally so outspoken against irellevant and unhelpful remarks and comments but has a signature that completely goes against your last comment.

My remarks were neither irrelevant nor unhelpful.

1) This is a place of work, is it not?

2) You are not an electrician, are you?

Have you heard of the Electricity At Work Regulations? Do you know what responsibilities they place on your employer (and on you, should you be foolish enough to carry out electrical work there)? Do you think that you could (a) ensure that those responsibilities were properly discharged and (b) prove that you were competent?

All I wanted to know was what power bulbs would be best suited to the application, or do I need a 17th Edition certificate, Part P registration and 75 years of "proper" experience to so much as set my eyes on an outlet let alone change a lightbulb now?

Did I comment about you changing lamps?

Or did I comment about you replacing socket outlets?

Let's see, shall we?

I was called to the kitchen coz the plug off the same warmer was smoking and on inspection it's Donald Ducked the plug and socket again, so I'll have to replace them too now.

1) This is a place of work.

2) You are not an electrician.

3) Don't go anywhere near inspecting things, let alone replacing sockets.

 

[Spark123]

All I wanted to know was what power bulbs would be best suited to the application, or do I need a 17th Edition certificate, Part P registration and 75 years of "proper" experience to so much as set my eyes on an outlet let alone change a lightbulb now?

A place of work does not come under part P unless it shares a common supply with a domestic dwelling so part p may not apply.
A place of work does fall under the scope of the Health and Safety at Work act and thus the Electricity at Work Regulations apply. The EAWR require persons to be competent, if you can show competence in replacing lamps then you may carry out this task, competence comes with experience and training. I know a place where they run a course on how to change a lamp, you'd be suprised how many people do not know how to do even this menial task correctly
For any other electrical task you also need to show you are competent to do them.

 

[ban-all-sheds]

Clearly whoever installed the existing warming lamps didn't know how to do it properly...

 

[Spark123]

Have spent hours changing lamps which are so bright they were uncomfortable, given they were the correct wattage but the wrong voltage!

 

[ban-all-sheds]

Just wait for them to fail (shouldn't take long), then they won't be uncomfortably bright....

 

[electronicsuk]

Sounds like these plate warmers might be better fed from 16A outlets, each on their own dedicated circuit.

 

[Spark123]

They seemed to last OK, started scorching the lamp holders though. The supply voltage was about 60% higher than the lamps rated voltage