Please make dob and dab illegal in kitchens.

[chris202]

Hello all,

I don't usually post topics on this site, but have such a strong view on dob and dab, I feel I need to share it with others.

I'm in the middle of fitting my new kitchen I purchased from Wren (great quality by the way).

Prior to this, I had a plasterer around to do the whole show, Wall and ceilings. Before he commenced, he said because the Walls were all over the place, he said t would be best to dot and dab it, as this would be the best way to get it all square.

I always new what dot and dab was, and at the time sad, I'm no to sure because of the problems of hanging the wall units. He said don't worry, because I can drill straight through the plasterboard into the back solid wall with long fixings.

I never was too happy about it but for some reason allowed him to continue in trust.

Today, I tried to hang some wall units, and quiet simply what a disaster! I bought myself a lovely new cordless ERbauer 24v drill from screwfix with some lovely 4" screws. Got a great fixing into the solid wall and as soon as I tried to pull them up, they simply broke the plasterboard. Well of course they did - plasterboard right?

Cutting a long story short, I only hung two wall units today all day. I had to cut huge big squares out of the plasterboard and set in 3 x 2 sections of batten in so I had something solid to fix to.

Quiet simply, dob and dab method is just quick and nothing else and furthermore is useless in kitchens!

Please, if you are about to have your kitchen plastered, and the plasterer wants to use dot and dab, tell him to leave and you will get someone In Who will do the job properly and not bodge it!

More chopping out of the plasterboard tomorrow - great!!!!

 

[Alarm]

Have you thought your fixing method was not quite right?
It takes a fair bit to do what you describe.

The new 24v drill a bit more powerful than expected?

 

[chris202]

Hello, the 24v is great, but I am using for the drill bits only.

I'm pulling up the wall plates with a normal drill driver. The wall plates (hooks) are around 75mm long, to be fair, once you get 2 number 4 x 12 screws pulling on this small plate on plasterboard, it doesn't take a .a lot to pull it through the plasterboard.

Any less force, and you could argue it would.be a poor fixing.

You have to pull these wall plates up tight as there is only to of tem and they are holding the hole wall unit up.

 

[Alarm]

4 x 12 `s any reason?
What does it say in the MI?

I have hung heavier weights off plasterboard and had no issue.
Do you do this for a living, or is it DiY?

 

[chris202]

I've used 4" screws because the plasterboard is around 2" from the solid wall so needed long screws in order so I could get a fixing into the old solid wall.

I hear what you are saying, two 12 x 4 screws exert a huge amount of force on a small area.

Perhaps, to be fair this was too much force in heinsite.

I still argue though dob and dab is not as secure as solid wall; i.e bonding out and finish.

Perhaps next time I should consider using the clutch on the drill driver based on your 'better' experience than mine!!!

I am. DIY er but am well 'seasoned' to be fair....

 

[Alarm]

Fixed correctly two 4" 12`s could hold up 200 kilos.

You went overboard ( sorry about the "board" word) and caused the issue IMHO.
In my old house I hung heavy drapes on poles against dot and dab.
My children used them as swings ( little gits ) and nothing failed.

Again you went "too safe" the cupboard would self support when hung and have no issues. With maybe a few extra ones to just hold in place rather than support, but to assist.
You freely admit to "over clutching" which I mentioned before as "More powerful than expected?"

You could have used a few methods for a secure fixing apart from the one you were told. Spacers perhaps. Chemical fix with rods. The list goes on, really.
Google or asking in the right section here would have given you a multitude of ideas.

But you went with the new "toy" full pelt. As you admit.
Crushed plasterboard, actually was it single or double and what thickness?


I finish with agreeing a render ( bet you never had that) with bonding and a finish would be a bit stronger.
But you were the one paying and taking onboard ( sorry that word again) the method.
I have stopped work in my house because it was either not agreed to or I felt not good enough, you had that choice.

To go onto a website and demand the method used in the location you agreed to is to be made illegal is not really going to go very far.


But it has obviously made you feel a bit better and hopefully next time you will know better about building methods and tools and what they can do.

Please do not think this is in anyway intended to be anything but an observation of your posts. I really hope you can get this sorted and have the kitchen of your ( and partners ) dreams.

Let us know how you sort this and sling up a picture, always good to see success.

 

[redpis]

Chris

The walls must have been way out of wack to have a 2 " gap, this link might have helped, but with that stand-off distance I'm not sure!

http://www.drylinepro.com/acatalog/this_is_a_brochure_page.html

 

[Geps]

Rigifix might also be worth looking into. Expensive, but cheaper than a replaster.

 

[Pedrovr4]

Yeah, sounds like you just over tightened the screws.
Im not a great fan of dry lining either - always seems like a bit of a bodge.......

 

[keyplayer]

Nothing wrong with dot and dab, although I prefer my boards to be fixed to battens. It's all in the planning ahead really. Dryline Pro for the win.

 

[peaps]

sour grapes to blame the plasterer.

 

[JohnD]

You might also consider a Hanging Rail that the kitchen cab hangers can hook onto, instead of individual fixings. I like the rails because you can put them up in advance, easy to level, spread the load, you can move the cabs and put them where you like.

You do have to notch the back edge of the cabs.

You can paint them to match the wall if you want.

http://www.woodfit.com/product_info.php?products_id=193&Name=Cabinet+Hanging+Rail+-+2.5mt.+-+Steel

 

[dougalhouse]

In defence of dot and dab (I prefer float and set myself) if you do it like i do, the wall is practically solid afterwards anyhow:-

Apply vertical beads of drywall adhesive at 300mm centres then tamp HARD back straight and level creating a solid bed behind boards. Then any fixings through PB is into dry wall adhesive (nowt harder) and whatever substrate you stuck boards to.

Cos of the extra adhesive not much (if at all) cheaper than float and set but depends on spec.

 

[dhutch]

I dont like PB walls either, but assuming the dots are at vaugely acpetable centers it does sound like you have tighted them really quite tight. Cupboard hangers only really need to be just touched in to the surface.



Daniel