Plumbers using junction boxes under floors...

Discussion in 'Electrics UK' started by aaamusements, 23 Aug 2017.

  1. aaamusements

    aaamusements

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    Was walking plumber/heating engineer round on first day of new boiler installation.

    I said "I'm going to be changing that cable there, it's been wired to that socket in 1.5mm off the ring and the ring has been connected back up between two junction boxes in 1.5mm. And as you know JBs aren't allowed under floor boards anyway"

    He said "So what are you supposed to use?"

    I replied "Maintenance free connectors. Like push fit terminals".

    He looked blank. "Well we'd just use a JB".

    He's the professional and the one with the gas safe certification, so I decided at that point I wouldn't make it it into an argument...
    o_O
     
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  3. sparkwright

    sparkwright

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    He's a plumber, they know nothing.

    Is he going to be doing the wiring for the heating then?
     
  4. aaamusements

    aaamusements

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    Yep. Not a lot to do fortunately, just the hard wired room stat and the mains feed to the combi, this will be taken from the old and defunct immersion heater cabling as it's the closest power to where the boiler will be sited.
    Unfortunately that will involve extending this cable, and I'm not happy with the idea that they might do so with a JB - although it could feasibly be inserted above the floor in the old airing cupboard, even that would be an untidy compromise.
     
  5. sparkwright

    sparkwright

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    Plumbers doing their own wiring for heating is pathetic.

    Expect the worst.

    I have seen plumbers extend cables in lofts without an enclosure.

    Earth cores used as live conductors, cables in notches at the top of the joists.

    Brown sleeving thrown on the floor and not on the wires.

    Cables touching hot pipes.

    I could go on.

    Then again, I've seen professional electricians do all that too...
     
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  6. aaamusements

    aaamusements

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    What galls me somewhat is that this is (presumably) notifiable work, but the person who is apparently legally able to do this work is likely to do a less satisfactory job than I would do myself...
     
  7. sparkwright

    sparkwright

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    That can be the case with various trades quite often now it seems.
     
  8. JohnW2

    JohnW2

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    As I'm sure you know, even if it is notifiable work, you are as "legally able" to do the work as him - but it would cost you (in terms of notification fees).

    Kind Regards, John
     
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  9. Risteard

    Risteard

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    Well that simply isn't correct.
     
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  11. aaamusements

    aaamusements

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    This is true and a very fair point, but in this case it would not be financially viable to do so in this way.

    It would almost never make sense in the context of larger works to do part of it yourself and then get it separately notified
     
  12. ericmark

    ericmark

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    What is assessable, if he can access pipes by removing floor board, then why not wires? As far as he is concerned under floor boards is accessible. However he will claim reverse when using a chock block without enclosure.

    It really does not matter, plumber, electrician, heating engineer, does not matter what label you have good and bad. Often their compliance is selective, plumbers fitting mothers central heating were very critical of our previous use of plastic 12 mm piping, this was not a proper job, but same guys fitted a power shower direct to cold water inlet, and did not throttle back a single lock shield valve. OK non of their soldered joints on the 15 mm pipe leaked, but neither did my push fit joints on plastic pipe.

    Having worked with plastic pipe for years, OK pneumatic not water, I knew many thing was don't make it neat, you need bows in the pipes so they can expand and contract without pulling themselves out of the fitting.

    Same with electric rats tail loops stop so many problems specially on steel gantries. However put some tight cable ties around them, and may as well not be there.

    With both the rewire and the new central heating there were faults, however it took a few hours to correct wiring faults, it took years to correct the plumbing faults, OK to be fair I am not a plumber so took longer to work out what was wrong, I am sure if I was a plumber it would be reversed, hind sight is easy, I fitted one extra TRV in the hall and nearly all the problems went away. However before that point I had tried all sorts to get it into a reasonable working order.
     
  13. JohnW2

    JohnW2

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    Yes, I assumed that would be the case.
    I'm not so sure about that as a generalisation - it 'depends' on many things.

    Kind Regards, John
     
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  14. aaamusements

    aaamusements

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    Installer queried it with the business owner - 40 odd years in the plumbing trade - and the reply that came back was:
    "You would only use maintenance free connections if the rest of the installation was to 17th edition".

    Discuss.
     
  15. EFLImpudence

    EFLImpudence

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    Wrong.

    All new work should comply with the latest regulations.
     
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  16. JohnW2

    JohnW2

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    Oh dear! Not much discussion is required!

    Any (and all) new non-accessible joints must be 'maintenance fee', regardless of anything about the rest of the installation. Existing ones which aren't MF do not need to be brought up to current requirements.

    Kind Regards, John
     
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  17. aaamusements

    aaamusements

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    Thanks for the confirmation, that's what I expected and believed. In fact I laughed, and said "that's an amusing way of getting out of it then!"
    However I wasn't in any position to argue, wanting the job to be done, and not being in a position to disagree with someone who, as mentioned before, has a qualification which I do not possess...
     
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