Police shoot to kill ?

[Slogger]

i really cant see what is wrong in stating the fact that i think the police are heros and they deserve praise not prosecution


but who am eh

just because you dont agree with what does not justify you taking my posts off


? did i call anyone names ( unlike so many here ) wtf was wrong with it

 

[johnny_t]

For this man to be shot was an enormous wrong, and it is amazing how many people are prepared to accept this and just dismiss it as 'one of those things' or 'no smoke without fire' as it should be a concern to all of us. We only know what we have been told, and the reporting has swung from one end of the spectrum to the other.

Firstly, we were told that this man was tailed on the back of good intelligence, was wearing a puffer jacket with wires coming out of it, and that this was the culmination of a fevered chase through the streets of London that involved him vaulting the barrier into the tube.

The story was put about that he was some sort of illegal immigrant, and a lot of people zoned out of the story then, thinking there must have been something dodgy about him. I believe that it has since emerged that he was here perfectly legitimately, but either way this is not relevant to the story and is just a smokescreen.

Now, we are told that this man was wearing hardly more than a pair of hot pants and a vest top, took a leisurely walk down to the tube and bought a travelcard. The only thing that delayed him on his journey was stopping to help some old ladies across the road, probably.

The police may well have been acting in good faith, but they could also have been so fired up by the prospect of bagging a terrorist that they lost all power of rational thought, and if that is the case, they are not the sort of people we want walking round the capital with guns.

I guess the truth lies somewhere between the two, and that is why we need some sort of enquiry. For the police to operate effectively, they need the support of the public and also for us to buy into what they are doing. For that, we need to have confidence in their competence, and that they are not making the sort of mistakes that Laurel and Hardy would make if they put a uniform on. Further debacles like Forest Gate do not help their case.

If the police acted competently, then they have nothing to fear from an enquiry. If they acted incompetently, then it is imperative that we know about it and are able to correct it. Keeping quiet is the worst of all worlds for everyone.

 

[ninebob]

johnny_t - you're spot on there, in fact it's almost exactly the same as my post. If the police get the impression that they can behave as they please on the back of public hysteria, we're going down a very dangerous road indeed.

 

[joe-90]

johnny-t, hindsight is a wonderful thing (as you've so ably demonstrated), but it isn't available to those on the spot.

As far as the armed police were aware, the suspect had been accurately identified. He WAS a suicide bomber on his way to blow up a train load of people.

The radios wouldn't work under ground so they were on their own.

So what would YOU have done?

 

[johnny_t]

Hindsight is indeed a wonderful thing, which is why we should use it to find out exactly what happened.

Its what we in industry call root-cause analysis and preventative action, not a witchhunt. Aren't you the teensiest bit interested in what really happened, or will it take someone close to you being shot before your interest is aroused ?

 

[joe-90]

Hindsight is indeed a wonderful thing, which is why we should use it to find out exactly what happened.

Its what we in industry call root-cause analysis and preventative action, not a witchhunt. Aren't you the teensiest bit interested in what really happened, or will it take someone close to you being shot before your interest is aroused ?

That isn't what you were saying. Naturally the incident needs investigation but not a public circus.

What about cop cars that crash in high speed chases killing innocent people?
Should we stop chasing crims?

 

[johnb80]

Hindsight is indeed a wonderful thing, which is why we should use it to find out exactly what happened.

Its what we in industry call root-cause analysis and preventative action, not a witchhunt. Aren't you the teensiest bit interested in what really happened, or will it take someone close to you being shot before your interest is aroused ?

That isn't what you were saying. Naturally the incident needs investigation but not a public circus.

What about cop cars that crash in high speed chases killing innocent people?
Should we stop chasing crims?

110% with you on this one joe-90, you're bang on the mark.

How many people go through daily life and never make a mistake in their job? yes in this case the consequences are horrendous and POSSIBLY a mistake was made BUT I still feel we should praise not prosecute the police who are risking their lives to protect ours.

Regards - J

 

[johnny_t]

That isn't what you were saying. Naturally the incident needs investigation but not a public circus.

Its exactly what I was saying, so it sounds like you agree. Splendid - I shall go for my lunchtime stroll with an extra spring in my step today....

 

[hermes]

Splendid - I shall go for my lunchtime stroll with an extra spring in my step today....

Are you still partaking of post-prandial perambulations in these temperatures?

 

[johnny_t]

I work next to a South facing window in a Victorian building, so outside is actually cooler than inside. Bit sweaty though.....

 

[ellal]

It was at a time of chaos. People running around adrenalin charged. They did what they thought was right at the time. I'm sure that lessons have been learned.

what chaos?..just another day under the (often exagerrated) threat of terrorism - just because the events of 7/7 were recent doesn't justify 'trigger happy cops' or bad intelligence resulting in ANOTHER innocent death. Because what most people either fail to realise, or refuse to do so, is that Menezes was just as much an innocent victim as those on the tube or the bus!!

Personally, having cops running around 'on adrenalin' is far more worrying, as there are many more of them than 'terrorists'..!

As for lessons being learned...please do tell how, if no-one is actually responsible, or there is no real independant enquiry - will the police actually learn something here?

Well, maybe they'll just learn to be even more secretive in the future - 'for our own good' of course!!

 

[jbonding]

At the end of the day the guy was killed in cold blood on his way to were ever, so someone has to be accountable. I agree the hype around the time was crazy but who ever gave the order on the evidence should be held acountable. The police have made quite a few mistakes and seem to be above the law as in regards punishment. This was different to the ones that stand out in my mind (the fella carrying a wooden table leg in a bag, on a tip off from someone in a pub saying he thought it was a gun they shot him dead, the fella shot in bed who was naked at the time.) Are these guys trained or what, im sure they could of hit their legs. .
Like someone else on here said if this guy was carrying a bomb he needed killing and this is what they were trained to do and ordered, who gave the order? there was a masive cover up at first or maybe media hype but the guy was killed.

 

[joe-90]

It's OK folks. They won't act next time. They'll wait for the bang before they believe he's a bomber.

 

[Thermo]

i find it really strange that all the people who criticise the actions of the officers who shot him, never answer the simple question of what they would have done if faced with that set of circumstances. I am not talking about the commanders, the surveillance etc (because undoubtably something went wrong somewhere), but the actual officers who were informed he was a bomber, knew the risks and had to make a split second decision, based purely on the information avaliable to them at the time.

So what would you have done?

 

[jbonding]

they were convinced he was carrying a bomb so why did he get to the station? Lets imagine he had a bomb like you say, was the inteligence that good they could only pick him up when he arrived. He must of been watched if the inteligence were anything so why wasnt he shot as he left the house?