Portable Appliance Test form question
- Thread starter Stuepot
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Who’s form? NICEIC? Your own? more info please.
If it is like the Electrical Installation Certificates etc. then it is just an arbitrary number by each individual contractor.
Thats it, you can generate it any way you wish, but it MUST be unique to that document, you could take the contract number you have assigned to the job you are working on and call the docuement something like $contractNo-ATC with ATC being Appliance test certificate, where you could also have EIC, or MWC, etc. If you are doing more than one under a contract, they could be $contractNo-001-ATC, $contractNo-002-ATC , etc. You need to store copies of all issued documents, and ideally you should have some way of looking them up to go back to (so a big box of printed paper would not be the best way to do this!)
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The people you must please is the HSE inspectors, and the main point is the item of plant the form refers to can be identified.
So we should have an equipment register, and also a list of items in quarantine, I got in trouble because I has not locked my workshop which was the quarantine area and had no notices to tell people items should not be removed from that area.
A fail sticker it seems is not good enough.
I once when busy employed a contractor to do the inspection and testing of in-service equipment, only to find they had changed the plant number of everything they had tested, with no paperwork to say what old number lined up with new number, in most cases I did have the manufacturers ID linked to old number, so could find the old number, but it took their guys longer to re-label to doing the PAT testing.
Can hardly show if some thing is deteriorating if one keeps changing the plant number. However some machines do seem to auto generate ID's.
A good example of numbering is LNER locomotives which clearly are portable plant see here more complex that normal for office equipment, but the main point years latter one can still follow a loco's history.
So we should have an equipment register, and also a list of items in quarantine, I got in trouble because I has not locked my workshop which was the quarantine area and had no notices to tell people items should not be removed from that area.
A fail sticker it seems is not good enough.
I once when busy employed a contractor to do the inspection and testing of in-service equipment, only to find they had changed the plant number of everything they had tested, with no paperwork to say what old number lined up with new number, in most cases I did have the manufacturers ID linked to old number, so could find the old number, but it took their guys longer to re-label to doing the PAT testing.
Can hardly show if some thing is deteriorating if one keeps changing the plant number. However some machines do seem to auto generate ID's.
A good example of numbering is LNER locomotives which clearly are portable plant see here more complex that normal for office equipment, but the main point years latter one can still follow a loco's history.
Unique to those which you have produced - but no individual can ever be certain that it is 'unique' in terms of all numbers created by all people. Only some 'centralised' number creation system could guarantee that.
Kind Regards, John=
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Does it really need to be a Unique number?
Grinder 1 and Drill 1 same number but identified as different items.
Also there is nothing to stop a area being used, Welshpool Sweet shop all items tested and found serviceable, is permitted, don't even need a label on each item.
OK a little of a problem ensuring all items found, the equipment register is normally required, but if in Welshpool station we only have 6 electrical items then writing out a certificate all 6 items tested and inspected not faults found would be good enough.
When an organisation has 6000 items then we need some thing a little better, but even then likely depot by depot, common to see MO020 where MO stands for Mold, or G020 where G stands for grinder.
Grinder 1 and Drill 1 same number but identified as different items.
Also there is nothing to stop a area being used, Welshpool Sweet shop all items tested and found serviceable, is permitted, don't even need a label on each item.
OK a little of a problem ensuring all items found, the equipment register is normally required, but if in Welshpool station we only have 6 electrical items then writing out a certificate all 6 items tested and inspected not faults found would be good enough.
When an organisation has 6000 items then we need some thing a little better, but even then likely depot by depot, common to see MO020 where MO stands for Mold, or G020 where G stands for grinder.
No individual can be certain they won't be struck by lightning while walking home from the park either.
If one chooses a sufficiently large random number one can have a very high level of confidence in it's uniqueness. Even if it's generation was not coordinated in any way with the selection of other numbers.
If (as we were asked about) it is a Certificate Reference Number (not an 'item reference number') then, yes, I think it has to be unique amongst certificates issued by the same person/company, doesn't it?
Again, you seem to be talking about the identification of tested items, not of the certificates. Those are two entirely different issues.
Kind Regards, John
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It seems the model forms no longer includes the inspection and testing of in service electrical equipment. I had to go back a fair bit to find the forms, there were 6 forms, Form V1.1 Equipment register, Form V1.2 Equipment formal visual and combined inspection and test record, Form V1.4 Repair register, Form V1.5 Faulty equipment register, Form V1.6 Test instrument record, plus the sample Equipment labels, which were Form V1.3.
The forms have space for the Register number, but the form itself did not have any number. Looking as A3 forms we still do not have a ID number on the form.
I would agree not the best idea, when I came to sell mothers house I found 3 sets of forms with installation certificates and completion and compliance certificates, and noted there was nothing to say which one was active, and no cross reference the installation certificate and completion certificate, so had I made out a second installation certificate one would not know which one linked to the completion certificate.
I would assume the LABC would be able to link them, but the copy of the installation certificate submitted is not returned you only get the completion certificate, and when I miss placed the certificates and tried to get replacements I was told it would take 4 months and unknown cost. Depended how long it took them to find it.
I know we had a problem with PAT testing small items, the batching plant was portable as 22 wagon loads and we had a special check list for that, three electricians weekend work, but small items were tested by another firm for schedule test, but if repaired then we tested it, lucky we both used the same Robin machine so we could give them our floppy disc end of each week with items we had re-tested.
The Robin software used visual basic, and as a result I could alter records, which I have done when a tester forgot to change the testers ID so all tests registered to guy who used machine before him. This also resulted in no guarantee the person listed had actually done the testing, so the short form was printed and signed. This was started after foreman caught altering dates so records showed re-tested but were not.
I have come across faulty PAT testing where a mag mount drill was tested as class II and the drill clearly marked class II, but the mag mount was class I. So I can understand the error. This happens a lot where two items are tested as one, the desk top PC tested complete with lead, then lead swapped for example. Should be tested as a lead set. I had a red faced safety officer when I pointed out non of the lead sets in the office he was lecturing us in had been tested, so following what he had just told us all PC's in the office should stop being used until leads tested. Likely every other office was the same.
Some times we need common sense, but the inspection and testing of in-service electrical equipment is two exams, one for the actual testing, and one for the management of the testing. The latter may be a different person, where I work now the guy who tests calls in every so often, so the management has to be done by some one else.
It is up to the manager to work out what he needs to satisfy HSE. Filling cabinet for faulty equipment, or a caged area for it, depends how much he is likely to get and how big,
or just a plug lock.
As to how many a company needs not sure, it has been common to cut off the plug. Pain when trying to repair items fitting new plugs all the time.
The forms have space for the Register number, but the form itself did not have any number. Looking as A3 forms we still do not have a ID number on the form.
I would agree not the best idea, when I came to sell mothers house I found 3 sets of forms with installation certificates and completion and compliance certificates, and noted there was nothing to say which one was active, and no cross reference the installation certificate and completion certificate, so had I made out a second installation certificate one would not know which one linked to the completion certificate.
I would assume the LABC would be able to link them, but the copy of the installation certificate submitted is not returned you only get the completion certificate, and when I miss placed the certificates and tried to get replacements I was told it would take 4 months and unknown cost. Depended how long it took them to find it.
I know we had a problem with PAT testing small items, the batching plant was portable as 22 wagon loads and we had a special check list for that, three electricians weekend work, but small items were tested by another firm for schedule test, but if repaired then we tested it, lucky we both used the same Robin machine so we could give them our floppy disc end of each week with items we had re-tested.
The Robin software used visual basic, and as a result I could alter records, which I have done when a tester forgot to change the testers ID so all tests registered to guy who used machine before him. This also resulted in no guarantee the person listed had actually done the testing, so the short form was printed and signed. This was started after foreman caught altering dates so records showed re-tested but were not.
I have come across faulty PAT testing where a mag mount drill was tested as class II and the drill clearly marked class II, but the mag mount was class I. So I can understand the error. This happens a lot where two items are tested as one, the desk top PC tested complete with lead, then lead swapped for example. Should be tested as a lead set. I had a red faced safety officer when I pointed out non of the lead sets in the office he was lecturing us in had been tested, so following what he had just told us all PC's in the office should stop being used until leads tested. Likely every other office was the same.
Some times we need common sense, but the inspection and testing of in-service electrical equipment is two exams, one for the actual testing, and one for the management of the testing. The latter may be a different person, where I work now the guy who tests calls in every so often, so the management has to be done by some one else.
It is up to the manager to work out what he needs to satisfy HSE. Filling cabinet for faulty equipment, or a caged area for it, depends how much he is likely to get and how big,
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