Possibly dangerous wiring at in-laws?

[emptyhead41]

Hey all. Was roped into changing a light fitting for in-laws, thought it would be simple but I'm a bit concerned by what I've seen.

Both the original fitting and the replacement are both metal. The new one has a 3 core cable so needs earthed. The original only has two wires in the original flex but I noticed it has a little collar that looks like it was for earthing the fitting but there's no wire to it. Can't tell if it was removed or never there. There's no labelling to say if it's double insulated or not.

Thing is the wiring in the ceiling makes no sense to me but I don't know enough to know if it's dangerously incompetent and I should be worried or if it's just a bad, but safe, job from the early 80s.

There's 3 sets of wires going to one of those plastic connector blocks - 2 black, 1 red. The red is permanently live, the left-most black is switched live and the middle then seems to be neutral, so no earth.

As can be seen on the photo the brown is going to the neutral and blue to the switched live. It does work and I guess it doesn't matter because it's going to a switched live.

As an added bit of fun, while I was peering into the ceiling wiring to see if there was an earth cable just tucked away I saw an exposed bit of copper cable and thought "oh that's probably the earth". Thankfully I checked before touching it because it's permanently live too.

So I'm looking for some advice. Does this sound slightly poor but ok, or dangerous and I should make the in-laws get their wills in order (or get a sparky out to fix it I guess).

Cheers

 

[ETAF]

how old is the house , very often lighting did NOT have any earth - otherwise the wiring sounds ok, colour wise - not the actual photo - with stands out of the choc block
usually you would find this in a standard ceiling rose
usually the switched live - Black would have red tape/sleeve on it - but in all the DIY and 20+ houses i looked at in the 80's 90's i think i found 1 where it had any sleeving

3 red , Live , 2 black neutral , 1 black - switched live
of course any colour could have been used - dont think black means neutral or red means live - depends on who wired and how, as in black is live from switch - could easily have been connected to the other 2 reds and then returned red

Multi-point radial lighting circuit (old cable colours)

If you are new to lighting circuits, this is a good place to start. Here we will explain how the most common lighting circuit works then we'll move on to some variations that you may see in your home - full set of wiring diagrams (old cable colours)

www.lightwiring.co.uk

EDIT
Should have gone on to say, dont use metal switches or lights ....... which require an earth

 

[EFLImpudence]

If there are not three earth wires in a connector in the ceiling, to which the new light earth can be connected, then you should not use the new light.

 

[emptyhead41]

how old is the house , very often lighting did NOT have any earth - otherwise the wiring sounds ok, colour wise - not the actual photo - with stands out of the choc block
usually you would find this in a standard ceiling rose
usually the switched live - Black would have red tape/sleeve on it - but in all the DIY and 20+ houses i looked at in the 80's 90's i think i found 1 where it had any sleeving

3 red , Live , 2 black neutral , 1 black - switched live
of course any colour could have been used - dont think black means neutral or red means live - depends on who wired and how, as in black is live from switch - could easily have been connected to the other 2 reds and then returned red

Multi-point radial lighting circuit (old cable colours)

If you are new to lighting circuits, this is a good place to start. Here we will explain how the most common lighting circuit works then we'll move on to some variations that you may see in your home - full set of wiring diagrams (old cable colours)

www.lightwiring.co.uk

EDIT
Should have gone on to say, dont use metal switches or lights ....... which require an earth

Hahaha yea it's not great is it? The father-in-law actually paid someone to do this. Granted it was nearly 40 years ago but still. I'd have been 8 then and I'm pretty sure I'd still have known to put the insulation up to the block.

Still what you say about the state of the wiring in the ceiling sounds reassuring. The house is from 1930s I think so I guess it's possible there was no earth originally.

What you say about the not using metal lights or switches though, that's exactly what I was concerned about. I've told them cheapest way to make it safe then is get a non-metal light fitting.

Thanks for that. And congratulations for surviving doing wiring in the 80s and 90s. Sounds like it was a bit wild west. Haha

 

[ETAF]

Still what you say about the state of the wiring in the ceiling sounds reassuring. The house is from 1930s I think so I guess it's possible there was no earth originally.

well, i meant the colours , and layout etc you found, not that the state of it was good - no idea without being there
maybe a few issues if its 40years old .....

And congratulations for surviving doing wiring in the 80s and 90s. Sounds like it was a bit wild west. Haha

i trained in electronics & electrical engineering, so actually out fixing computers in the 80's but helped out with wiring / friends family

 

[emptyhead41]

well, i meant the colours , and layout etc you found, not that the state of it was good - no idea without being there
maybe a few issues if its 40years old .....

i trained in electronics & electrical engineering, so actually out fixing computers in the 80's but helped out with wiring / friends family

Ah yea, I knew what you meant, but that's good enough for me. At least it's not looking obviously dangerously incompetent which was my fear

 

[Sureitsoff?]

Is there any slack in the cables coming through the ceiling? Could you gently pull them through to see if there is an earth present.