Practical advice on adding a socket to ring main

[neocleous]

Hi everyone,

I would like to add two sockets to the ring main, specifically above an existing socket for a TV. I do not want to move the socket that is there I want to add two double sockets above it in the ring main.

I understand the wiring but practically how do I extend the wiring from the existing socket up to the new socket? What is the best method to extend the cable and from where?

For reference this is in a bedroom with floorboards.

Thanks

 

[rsgaz]

above an existing socket ... ... in the ring main.

Firstly, have you checked that this socket isn't a spur? Finding two cables to it is no guarantee that it is on a ring final either.

What is the best method to extend the cable and from where?

The absolute 'best' method is to not have any unnecessary joints at all, but this would mean pulling up more floorboards to replace the cable from the previous socket, so for practical reasons, one leg of the ring should be taken out of the low down socket, joined with a choc-block(or Wago 221) so that that leg now goes up the new sockets, then another new cable back down to the old socket, therefore maintaining the ring.

in a bedroom with floorboards.

What are the walls made of?

 

[JohnW2]

I would like to add two sockets to the ring main, specifically above an existing socket for a TV. I do not want to move the socket that is there I want to add two double sockets above it in the ring main. I understand the wiring but practically how do I extend the wiring from the existing socket up to the new socket? What is the best method to extend the cable and from where?

There are all sorts of ways that it can be done, but first a question .... do you know which is 'the next socket on the ring' (next from the one you plan to work from) - and, if so, is it nearby - or, at least, on the same wall as the other one?

Kind Regards, John

 

[neocleous]

Thanks for the responses everyone I'll try and respond in the order people posted.

Firstly, have you checked that this socket isn't a spur? Finding two cables to it is no guarantee that it is on a ring final either.



The absolute 'best' method is to not have any unnecessary joints at all, but this would mean pulling up more floorboards to replace the cable from the previous socket, so for practical reasons, one leg of the ring should be taken out of the low down socket, joined with a choc-block(or Wago 221) so that that leg now goes up the new sockets, then another new cable back down to the old socket, therefore maintaining the ring.



What are the walls made of?

From what I can tell the socket is original to the house the property is 23 years old so I have no reason to think it's anything other than on the ring main. How would I confirm this?

There is a socket on the same wall separated by a door way so it is possible that, that is the next socket in the ring and I can replace that cable. If that isn't the case and I do need to extend is the best place to make the extension under the floor? The walls are dot and dab.

 

[rsgaz]

How would I confirm this?

See this post by @Taylortwocities

socket on ring or spur?

is the best place to make the extension under the floor?

No, you never want hidden joints, even though maintenance free ones are allowed to be hidden. I had visualised the new sockets directly above the existing socket, is that not the case? Draw a diagram of that wall or show us a picture please?

The walls are dot and dab.

Then you will need to 'chase' the wall for the new cables and then make good afterwards.

 

[neocleous]

See this post by @Taylortwocities

socket on ring or spur?


No, you never want hidden joints, even though maintenance free ones are allowed to be hidden. I had visualised the new sockets directly above the existing socket, is that not the case? Draw a diagram of that wall or show us a picture please?


Then you will need to 'chase' the wall for the new cables and then make good afterwards.

I'll take a picture and annotate it when I get home. The sockets will be directly above possible off set slightly to the left.

If you shouldn't hide the joints where is the best place to make the joint and have it accessible?

As the walls are dot and dab glue permitting can't I just fish the cable in the void and chase out for the back box rather than open the wall up?

Thanks

 

[EFLImpudence]

I would like to add two sockets to the ring main, specifically above an existing socket for a TV. I do not want to move the socket that is there I want to add two double sockets above it in the ring main.

Why 'in the ring'? What advantage has that?

I understand the wiring but practically how do I extend the wiring from the existing socket up to the new socket? What is the best method to extend the cable and from where?

You simply connect a piece of 4mm² cable to the existing socket and run it up the wall and connect it to one of the new ones and then the other.

Yes, you can fish the cable behind the plasterboard as long as you maintain vertically or horizontally in line with accessories

 

[neocleous]

Why 'in the ring'? What advantage has that?


You simply connect a piece of 4mm² cable to the existing socket and run it up the wall and connect it to one of the new ones and then the other.

Yes, you can fish the cable behind the plasterboard as long as you maintain vertically or horizontally in line with accessories

I want two doubles and from everything I've read you shouldn't spur from a spur.

 

[JohnW2]

I'll take a picture and annotate it when I get home. The sockets will be directly above possible off set slightly to the left.

As for possible 'offsetting', the ('buried') cable(s) need to remain in a zone vertically aligned within the width of a socket above or below.

If you shouldn't hide the joints where is the best place to make the joint and have it accessible?

Assuming that there is space for them, a connector block (or Wago connectors) within the back box of the existing socket is probably the best and simplest way to do it.

As the walls are dot and dab glue permitting can't I just fish the cable in the void and chase out for the back box rather than open the wall up?

Indeed. If you hit a dot (or is it a dab?!), you may have to do some limited local excavation of the wall but, otherwise, 'fishing' is OK.

Edit: As EFLI has just written, if you can confirm that the existing socket is on the ring, then running a 4mm² spur from it (for your two double sockets) would probably be the simplest - no interference with existing wiring at all, and only one cable having to go up the wall.

Kind Regards, John

 

[JohnW2]

I want two doubles and from everything I've read you shouldn't spur from a spur.

That is said by people who don't think. If you wire a spur in 4mm² cable, there's no reason why one cannot 'spur off it'.

Kind Regards, John

 

[EFLImpudence]

I want two doubles and from everything I've read you shouldn't spur from a spur.

You can if you use suitably sized cable which is rated for 32A, i.e. 4mm².

You may notice a similarity between one 4mm² cable and two 2.5mm² cables run next to each other.

 

[neocleous]

That is said by people who don't think. If you wire a spur in 4mm² cable, there's no reason why one cannot 'spur off it'.

Kind Regards, John

You can if you use suitably sized cable which is rated for 32A, i.e. 4mm².

You may notice a similarity between one 4mm² cable and two 2.5mm² cables run next to each other.

Thank you for the advice guys it has been very helpful indeed.

 

[AndyPRK]

I wonder if sparks in the real world use 4mm in this way.

 

[JohnW2]

I wonder if sparks in the real world use 4mm in this way.

Those who think might well do (EFLI is clearly one example) - but I agree that an awful lot probably wouldn't even think of doing it ("because it's not one of the examples given in Appendix 15 of the regs"!).

Kind Regards, John

 

[EFLImpudence]

I wonder if sparks in the real world use 4mm in this way.

If the circuit were a 4mm² radial in the first place, they probably would.

Not quite sure what you are getting at.
Have you a valid reason for not doing it?