So far the temperature differential has meant that the loft area has yet to lose more heat than is gained, it's a good question though, I'd need a much bigger set of pumps to make a dent in the heat of the air accumulated (and a closed loft hatch), at any point the air out has always been hotter than the air in but it's a large roof surface area. I aim the outlet at the living room no reason why it can't branch and do two rooms and then normal convection would reduce the heating required upwards. The fundamental idea is sound and has been done before, not aiming for an entire heating replacement system but a reduction in use of the current system.
Practical economical Idea for reducing heating bills.
- Thread starter PhilipClarke
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So far the temperature differential has meant that the loft area has yet to lose more heat than is gained, it's a good question though, I'd need a much bigger set of pumps to make a dent in the heat of the air accumulated (and a closed loft hatch), at any point the air out has always been hotter than the air in but it's a large roof surface area. I aim the outlet at the living room no reason why it can't branch and do two rooms and then normal convection would reduce the heating required upwards. The fundamental idea is sound and has been done before, not aiming for an entire heating replacement system but a reduction in use of the current system.
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This is air from above existing insulation.
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If my roof space was/is at 33 degrees I hardly think I'll be wanting to warm up the rest of the house... I'll probably have all the windows open to try and cool the place down!
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That;s the second time that they;ve been mentioned so merits a larger response.
No I wouldn't, I have no need of funding and can provide it myself, I've never understood the people that need to go the dragon's den except maybe for advertising, from what I know, none of the Dragon's went round looking for angel investment either. Thinking about it, I've not needed to get a bank loan either, and I don't understand why the people don't get a loan (lot cheaper than giving away half your business and profits and making the dragons wealthier), I suppose part of it may be joining the old boys club or something, with greater access to contacts in "the business world" but after a couple of episodes a few years ago, I couldn't understand it.
It's not patentable so it's up for grabs for whomever has the time and inclination, I've another business to set up for the next two years and I hate seeing a good idea go to waste. The business model is even simpler, initial installations can be done with off the shelf components, but then you need to build a brand and work on thermostatic controls for an all in one modular system because with off the shelf anyone can do it, and the money will be in the brand, and the sequence of components can be copyrighted and trademarked. Capital investment is minimal, just using the money from the first few jobs, the reality will be the installation labour will be more expensive than the components for basic installations so you want pre-built kits to appeal to the general tradesman who can make a margin on them as well as their time.
Getting publicity is not normally difficult it's maintaining it that is more of a problem. My initial business was web/ server development, then importing plastic lens caps (and distributing to 44 countries it was not a small operation) and then the luxury end of bicycle components, I've never made a loss, never had a debt, the lens caps business was started after someone called me a one trick pony, so it was started with £250 and was making £30k a year in under nine months. It's the bike business that was difficult to maintain momentum, you can get the bits in to the magazines in tests and in general PR if you know how to time it, but keeping up the momentum when you're not shimano or sram and don't want to allocate a large amount of money to advertising is difficult, ironically on that business I was profitable, my retailers were profitable, the manufacturer in Taiwan went under, so the lesson of that tale would be to spread out the manufacturer's as relying on one was a major weak link.
BTW I'm 39 and have been "retired" (and draw a small pension) since I was 30 from the first business, the other businesses were started because I got a bit bored looking after the kids. I was going to start this new "other business" a couple of months ago but the house DIY is very interesting and I think one has to fill one's time. I'm also classified as severely physically disabled and never claimed benefits, I believe the only barrier to making money is probably attitude. My wife does work although is not the bread winner, investments and returns from my former businesses dealt with the majority.
If you are pinning your hopes on a Dragon bailing you out, you are certainly doing something wrong, that's like begging for scraps from some one's table. Just like those people on the apprentice, it's an infinite irony that they want to Lord Sugar but do something that he would not, i.e. apply for a job. I have a "millionaire" friend who is a window cleaner, started with one van and a bucket and I admire him immensely, he's a "millionaire" because of the valuation of his business which he built himself, re-investing the profits to employ others. His father is a millionaire, as in that amount in the bank, and he had a factory that made glue (sold up in the last five years so I have a good idea of his status). My window cleaning friend has no qualifications and just worked hard, he also received no money from his father. Funny that.
D
Deleted member 105431
If what u say is true good luck phil but as a heating engineer it seems a micky mouse idea.
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Fair play to you for being retired at 39 but this one is a non starter fella.
In fact the "running extractor ducting out of the loft and down the stairs" is verging on the ridiculous.
In fact the "running extractor ducting out of the loft and down the stairs" is verging on the ridiculous.
That's just the experiment to prove it worked, there's a better way of doing it and tidier too for proper installation.
Which is where the next product for the business model comes in, using the heat to pre-heat the water from the ground supply to the hot water and therefore reduce the energy required to run a bath or shower. Retro fits would be particularly good for this especially if they still have an old gravity fed (but unused) tank in the attic like my current home.
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I'm pretty sure that's just the prototype.
Could you not try, or calculate, the effect of a more powerful system, that would perhaps be more effective? Do you have room temperatures to plot against your loft temperatures?
Unlike others I agree with the idea. Of course it's not meant to replace central heating, but if you've got wasted heat why not use it? Even if it just raises the temperature by a couple of degrees, for such little outlay it has to be worth it.
That's covered two posts up in the expansion of the business model and product range.
D
Deleted member 105431
You need to read water bylaws that will pee on your bonfire for preheating water phil. 
J
joinerjohn
I think the system would need developing, so it could be built into new,build housing. The amount of insulation in lofts these days. I'd think you'll need some sort of filter on it to stop particles of the insulation being drawn down.
As you say. Lofts are quite warm in the spring and autumn and this heat could be utilised to heat the house somewhat. I don't know that it would be of much use during the winter though and during the summer, perhaps the heat could be used to warm hot water via a heat exchanger. I wouldn't fancy heating any rooms in the summertime.
As you say. Lofts are quite warm in the spring and autumn and this heat could be utilised to heat the house somewhat. I don't know that it would be of much use during the winter though and during the summer, perhaps the heat could be used to warm hot water via a heat exchanger. I wouldn't fancy heating any rooms in the summertime.
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http://www.nuaire.co.uk/Product/Residential_Products/Positive_Input_Ventilation/Drimaster_2000
Can you match the filtration?
This cured a friend's condensation problems in his bungalow when other procedures provided little benefit... (see the similarity to your proposal) I did ask him about the effects of introducing cooler air from his loft, he said it was 'no problem'. Perhaps the removal of major condensation problems overuled other considerations.
My older house has full length loft vents over fascia boards, can be quite a nippy space during winter... Suffers no condensation.
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Can you match the filtration?
This cured a friend's condensation problems in his bungalow when other procedures provided little benefit... (see the similarity to your proposal) I did ask him about the effects of introducing cooler air from his loft, he said it was 'no problem'. Perhaps the removal of major condensation problems overuled other considerations.
My older house has full length loft vents over fascia boards, can be quite a nippy space during winter... Suffers no condensation.
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