Pre-new system Powerflush - which product to use ?

[Guzzles]

Hi,

I am hiring a powerflush for a day to give my system a clean prior to having a new boiler fitted. (Yes, before anyone asks, the boiler will be fitted by a corgi plumber - I am just saving on labour costs by doing this bit myself)

I have been recommended KAMCO FX2 as I can use this in one session. I was planning to use this a couple of days before the boiler is fitted, then neutralise with the crystals and leave the system dry, and then use the KAMCO Systemsafe-DM inhibitor once the new system is fitted.

Is it alright to leave the system dry for a few days, or should I leave it with just neat water and let the plumber drain it?

Does anyone have any other preferences?

 

[gas4you]

Never used this so can't comment, but usually Kamco stuff is pretty good.

I always use X800, no need to neutralise, just flush out with clean water.

Shouldn't cause any problems leaving the system dry for a few days as long as pump cannot accidentally spin dry.

 

[mickyg]

Using the right products isn't half as important as doing the job properly. Most DIY flushes I've come across have been largely ineffective. If your intent on DIYing it then make sure your absolutely up to scratch with the most effective way of carrying out the job for your particular system.

 

[muggles]

Using the right products isn't half as important as doing the job properly. Most DIY flushes I've come across have been largely ineffective. If your intent on DIYing it then make sure your absolutely up to scratch with the most effective way of carrying out the job for your particular system.

I agree - you must do it properly or there's no point. This means flushing the whole system first, then doing each rad individually by shutting down all the others on the valves, then doing a final flush through of the whole system. I always aim for the water coming out of the waste dump to be as clear as the water coming out of your taps. I'd also recommend running the system for 20 minutes before you start the flush, then draining it down and refilling it. This removes any loose sludge and leaves the cleanser to do it's job on the stuck-on bits. The whole process should take you a good few hours to do properly.

We always use Fernox concentrate granules, they seem to work very well.

A word of warning though - if your system's particularly old, powerflushing it can result in you getting leaks all over the place as the last bit that was holding the water in gives up and goes. I've seen water coming out of the middle of a panel radiator before now...

Oh and one more thing, if your system is the traditional type that's fed from a small tank in the loft, you'll need to disconnect this and cap it off, or you'll end up with an almighty flood.

Hope this helps

 

[Guzzles]

I agree - you must do it properly or there's no point. This means flushing the whole system first, then doing each rad individually by shutting down all the others on the valves, then doing a final flush through of the whole system. I always aim for the water coming out of the waste dump to be as clear as the water coming out of your taps. I'd also recommend running the system for 20 minutes before you start the flush, then draining it down and refilling it. This removes any loose sludge and leaves the cleanser to do it's job on the stuck-on bits. The whole process should take you a good few hours to do properly.

We always use Fernox concentrate granules, they seem to work very well.

A word of warning though - if your system's particularly old, powerflushing it can result in you getting leaks all over the place as the last bit that was holding the water in gives up and goes. I've seen water coming out of the middle of a panel radiator before now...

Oh and one more thing, if your system is the traditional type that's fed from a small tank in the loft, you'll need to disconnect this and cap it off, or you'll end up with an almighty flood.

Hope this helps

Thanks for all the advice - when you say Fernox granules, do you mean DS40? - I think this might be a bit too fearce for my 20 year old panel radiators?

 

[muggles]

No I meant this actually, it's designed for use in powerflushing units http://www.fernox.com/?cccpage=sc_system_cleaner&sub=2 yes it is pretty lively but if you're that concerned about the rads I'd recommend getting new ones.

You'll also need neutraliser as you can't just dump cleanser down the drain. Use Center Brand inhibitor from plumb center, it's fernox F1 in a different bottle for half the price (or at least that's what I've been told by the guys who work there).

 

[Guzzles]

Thanks Muggles ,

on your original posting when you described how you powerflushed you didn't mention tapping the radiators with a soft mallet. Do that at the stage when you isolate every radiator appart from one?

Also do you have any preference on how you connect the powerflush? My pump is upstairs in the airing cupboard, and my downstairs radiators are on drop feeds as a result of a solid floor. Getting to the the pump or the radiator in the kitchen is just as easy.

Thanks for the helpful info.

 

[muggles]

Yeah tap them when you're doing them individually, it's more effective., I'd use a metal hammer and tap the seam at the bottom though...it vibrates the rad a bit more than a soft mallet.

We've got a pump head adapter that we use with our powerflush unit - it's really easy, you just isolate the pump and take the head off, put the adapter on, switch the valves back on (remember to cut the electricity supply to the pump) and away you go. Oh and make sure you set your zone valves to manual otherwise it'll all go horribly wrong.

 

[Guzzles]

Yeah tap them when you're doing them individually, it's more effective., I'd use a metal hammer and tap the seam at the bottom though...it vibrates the rad a bit more than a soft mallet.

We've got a pump head adapter that we use with our powerflush unit - it's really easy, you just isolate the pump and take the head off, put the adapter on, switch the valves back on (remember to cut the electricity supply to the pump) and away you go. Oh and make sure you set your zone valves to manual otherwise it'll all go horribly wrong.

Thanks for your help

 

[snb]

make sure when they hire you the powerflushing machine that they also include a combimag. It will help you do the job in half the time and use about 10% of the water that you require without one.

 

[Guzzles]

make sure when they hire you the powerflushing machine that they also include a combimag. It will help you do the job in half the time and use about 10% of the water that you require without one.

Sorry, what is a combimag?

 

[tonybhoy]

[/quote]Sorry, what is a combimag?[/quote]

http://www.kamco.co.uk/combimag.htm

or this,

http://www.adeysolutions.co.uk/PowerFlush.asp

 

[Guzzles]

Thanks,

I've been told by someone that Fernox do not recommend running an acid based cleaner through radiators older than 10 years. Should I just run a chemical based cleaner such as Fernox Restorer?

 

[ChrisR]

FX-2 and DS-40 are acidic, as is the Fernox product linked to above.

A recognised gentler effective way is to use Fernox Restorer, Kamco Hyperflush, Sentinel X400 (takes weeks) or X800 (give it a day or two) in the existing system, before flushing. Make sure the heating is on for a good part of the time, to distribute the mooti. You don't have to heat them but it's quicker if you do.
If you do the flush with a new boiler you must use magnetic/physical filters on the return.
If your old boiler is dead, flush with that, but preheat the HW cylinder with the immersion heater before you start, run the CH and HW together and it'll warm up the mix quite well.
The Norstrum and Kamco 3kW heaters are really too slow to make much difference.
It's easier to be sure your system is clean if you use a TDS (total dissolved solids) meter, and a pH meter (I use pH paper) to check for acidity.
The flow rate you get with powerflushing machines isn't very good, they're mostly pretty wimpey, to avoid pressures over about 1.5 bar. As long as you have an open end you can use the mains, which will usually give a much higher flow rate, when clearing the chemicals.

 

[Guzzles]

The problem I am presented with is my boiler is scaled up and kettling heavily.
If I add Fernox restorer now, I have a couple of weeks to run in the system before the boiler is due to be replaced. I am concerned that running the boiler is going to spead loads of crud around the CH system. The F/E tank is already full of brown crud, so I don't want to make it worse.
I don't know whether to risk it with the acid? The big advantage is I can remove the boiler from the system along with the F/E tank, and on the same day run the acid based cleaner around the system.
One idea I had was... Could I test one radiator out to see if it can cope with the acid before putting it in the whole system? I could take it outside and add a proportional mix and see what happens. If it okay, then as all the other rads are the same make/age, it should be okay?
I DO NOT WANT the new boiler's H/E to be damaged by crud in my old system.