Preparation for Smart Heating

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Hi,

My house is currently under complete renovation including being rewired and all new plumbing. Being installed is a Vaillant Ecotec Plus (not sure of the exact model yet), most likely a Main hot water cylinder, a Honeywell ST9400C programmer and 2 heating zones (upstairs/downstairs) using Honeywell Home T6360-1028 thermostat's, nothing purchased yet.
In the future I want to convert it to smart heating but not sure I can afford to do it yet.
Is there anything I should consider doing now to make things easier in the future while I have kind of a blank canvas.
Or if I go ahead and just install as above then I believe it would make sense to use wired smart thermostat's as replacements for the mechanical ones?

Any advice is welcome!

Thanks,

Marvin.
 
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I would think using Vaillant controls with a Vaillant boiler will perform better than any “smart” heating/thermostat. Using smart controls will just be basic on/off capabilities, whereas, Vaillant controls will modulate the boiler correctly.
 
Smart zones or smart boiler or both?

Get rid of the idea of "zones".

Make every rad active with a smart valve.

*Poof* mind blown.
 
Get rid of the idea of "zones".

Make every rad active with a smart valve

Isn't that the same ( almost ) as having as many zones as there are radiators.

Does the smart valve tell the boiler to fire up when necessary ? If so then how smart and reliable are the communications between the smart valves and the boiler
 
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I would think using Vaillant controls with a Vaillant boiler will perform better than any “smart” heating/thermostat. Using smart controls will just be basic on/off capabilities, whereas, Vaillant controls will modulate the boiler correctly.

I agree, get the full Vaillant kit for both best economy and from a comfort point of view.
 
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Isn't that the same ( almost ) as having as many zones as there are radiators.

Does the smart valve tell the boiler to fire up when necessary ? If so then how smart and reliable are the communications between the smart valves and the boiler

The programmer tells the boiler to fire.
The valves speak to the programmer to tell it the room temp or, if an override has been activated.

I've 11 rads across a 4BSD. Not had any issues with this so far.

The micro-zoning works great for the room users. They can control their own temps as they require.

The smart system isn't perfect but its very good and I won't be going back to the old 2zone way.
 
The programmer tells the boiler to fire.
The valves speak to the programmer to tell it the room temp or, if an override has been activated.

Sounds complicated.

Valves measure temperature and then speak to the programmer ? I thought valves controlled the flow of fluids.

Do these valves also listen to the programmer for instructions about when to open and how far to open.
 
Sounds complicated.

Valves measure temperature and then speak to the programmer ? I thought valves controlled the flow of fluids.

Do these valves also listen to the programmer for instructions about when to open and how far to open.

The smart rad valves do three things:

Monitor temperature
Register user input
Control flow.

All under the control of the programmer.

And all boiled down into a simple app where you create schedules to control each room/rad.

Quite clever really.
 
Isn't that the same ( almost ) as having as many zones as there are radiators.

Does the smart valve tell the boiler to fire up when necessary ? If so then how smart and reliable are the communications between the smart valves and the boiler
Not all electronic TRV heads are equal, the EvoHome was one of the first, EVO-home1.jpg and the thermostat was more like a building management system. Drayton Wiser claim to have built in algorithms to speed up temperature changes without over shooting. But there is also the non linked like the terrier i30 and the eQ-3, the latter can be got in a bluetooth version so where there are two radiators in one room they can be linked.

The problem seems to be manual operation, this IMGP8035.jpg Energenie TRV head has very few manual controls, it is a clever head with two sensors one for air and one for water, so compensates for radiator being hot. And on the computer shows both target and current so can use that to set the lock shield valve, it can connect to some wall thermostats, but wrong way around, the wall thermostat sets the TRV, not the TRV setting wall thermostat. So the much cheaper eQ-3 (I paid £15 each for bluetooth version before brexit) with window open detect, and full manual control, EQ-3 Bluetooth Smart Radiator Thermostat.jpg is in many ways better, I walk into room, press the right hand button and it swaps from eco to comfort mode, but does not link to boiler.

With an oil boiler not being linked is a problem, but with a modulating gas boiler the boiler rarely turns off in the winter it just turns down, so may be want one or two linked TRV heads, but most can be stand alone.

Central heating is a compromise, it would cost too much to have a fully automated system with each room exactly right temperature, so we aim for near enough, so I have wall thermostat drop 0.5ºC before the TRV programmed change, then back up 0.5ºC as it changes to ensure boiler runs, but I have oil, with gas not such a problem.

I think EPH make an opentherm thermostat which can be configured as master/slave, so using old fashioned motorised valves to form zones you can still control boiler analogue, but then no TRV link to wall thermostat, so in the main it is either/or, so either motorised valves create zones, or TRV's create zones, well suppose a electronic TRV is a motorised valve.

Speed is important, no good having geofencing with UFH unless you trigger it 200 miles from home. So if the first room to be used is kitchen, then large kick space heaters in the kitchen can heat it up fast, you can arrange a sequence using times, so kitchen, dinning room, living room, and bedroom have a delay between them, but clearly if boiler can modulate to 6 kW then unless radiators which are turned on can deliver 6 kW then boiler will start cycling. So some planning is required.

I have 4 so called bedrooms up stairs, but I call two bedrooms, one the craft room and last one office, using programmable TRV heads I can heat craft room during the day and allow bedrooms to cool, down stairs I have a dinning room, but rarely used, we eat in the living room, so I can allow dinning room to cool. I think we all change what we use rooms for over the years, so we want the flexibility with the heating, the old idea of splitting home upper and lower is simply not flexible enough to allow change of use for rooms.
 
What you need to consider, is things have moved on, years ago we were shown diagrams like this circulation2.jpg showing how the heat leaves the room, not so much an issue with double glazing, but we still have air circulating and likely the best place to monitor whole room is the return air to radiator, failing that opposite wall to radiator. So the TRV is likely in the best place to monitor whole room.
 
If I go the full Vaillant way, is this something I can do later or is there something I need to do now to make this easier?
 
What you need to consider, is things have moved on, years ago we were shown diagrams like this View attachment 255965 showing how the heat leaves the room, not so much an issue with double glazing, but we still have air circulating and likely the best place to monitor whole room is the return air to radiator, failing that opposite wall to radiator. So the TRV is likely in the best place to monitor whole room.

I will say they generally work well enough, but they must be influenced by the flow of hot water in the pipe, which is very close to them and hot. Not so much when the pipe has or is cooled, because they will be open and open or closed makes no difference to no flow.
 
If I go the full Vaillant way, is this something I can do later or is there something I need to do now to make this easier?
If you do it later, you’d probably have to go wireless. If you do it straight away, you may be able to run cables for the eBus.
 
If you do it later, you’d probably have to go wireless. If you do it straight away, you may be able to run cables for the eBus.
Is there some documentation that I can pass on to my plumber to help with the system design?
 

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