Problem in Oil Pipe To Tank.

[boozercruiser]

THe problem with using a boiler manufacturer to mainteain your boiler is that they stop as soon as the fault is not connected to the boiler.

Worcester in particullar have bee proactive in trying to get householders like you to sign up with them rather than using the installer or other independent service company like mine, but as soon as the going gets tough they quote some nonsence from the small proint and walk away ...leaving the househoplder in the lurch!!

An Independent Service Company would continue his diagnosis back towards the oil tank and resolve the fault for the client

Most independent's can provider brak-down insurance (such as Blue-Fin / Aviva, whicxh is more comprehensive than manufacturer;s policies

I would serioulsy consider who maintains your boiler in future!!hope this helps!! (rant over!)

You know what....I can appreciate and see exactly what you mean about getting the complete job with an Independent Service Company. After the Worcester Engineer more or less said

"Well matey....the Boilers O.K That's me finished.......possible freeze in the pipe (no mention of water) i'me off....have a nice cold weekend...Bye"

I did think that he was being a bit mean as he walked away and scooted off in his van 10 o clock Saturday morning.

The thing is....like I said...I purchased the boiler under a promotion which gives a Guarantee for 5 years provided that it is serviced properly every 12 months.

So at the moment I might as well keep with the Guarantee regarding the Boiler.

BUT.....I get your very valid point and valuable point of view.

P.S. I see that you have called me a .....'househoplder'....

Whatever that is I feel like one right now!

 

[boozercruiser]

Don't touch any screws. Read descriptions already given carefully. Eg turn off valve by handwheel first it shuts off the tank.

Ta for that....but which one is the handwheel please?

I mean...there isn't anything that can be turned by hand...as far as I can see.

 

[Tibbot]

It's in your picture, the lowest one, the bit facing downward at 45 deg angle it has a wheelhead top.

 

[Burnerman]

That valve looks hellish close to the ground
And the bowl filter looks hellish close to the valve.....?
John

 

[boozercruiser]

THe problem with using a boiler manufacturer to mainteain your boiler is that they stop as soon as the fault is not connected to the boiler.

Worcester in particullar have bee proactive in trying to get householders like you to sign up with them rather than using the installer or other independent service company like mine, but as soon as the going gets tough they quote some nonsence from the small proint and walk away ...leaving the househoplder in the lurch!!

An Independent Service Company would continue his diagnosis back towards the oil tank and resolve the fault for the client

Most independent's can provider brak-down insurance (such as Blue-Fin / Aviva, whicxh is more comprehensive than manufacturer;s policies

I would serioulsy consider who maintains your boiler in future!!hope this helps!! (rant over!)

Hope that you don't mind...but I have just fired off the below E. Mail to the Worcester request an engineer support dept......

Hello, Last Friday 21st. January I had a call out due to the fact that I had no Central Heating or hot water.
Even after coming back on Saturday morning the Engineer could not get my Heating or Hot Water back on. The engineer left saying that he thought there was frozen oil in the oil pipe and left.
I thought that was rather mean.
Trying to find support I went to a respected Forum and the below opinion was left...
"The problem with using a boiler manufacturer to maintain your boiler is that they stop as soon as the fault is not connected to the boiler.

Worcester in particular have been proactive in trying to get householders like you to sign up with them rather than using the installer or other independent service company like mine, but as soon as the going gets tough they quote some nonsense from the small print and walk away ...leaving the housholder in the lurch!!

An Independent Service Company would continue his diagnosis back towards the oil tank and resolve the fault for the client

Most independent's can provider break-down insurance (such as Blue-Fin / Aviva, which is more comprehensive than manufacturer;s policies

I would seriousy consider who maintains your boiler in future!!hope this helps"!! (rant over!)

I am mindful to write to Worcesters Director of Marketing and Support... Martyn Bridges for his opinion about this.
But with respect...where do you stand now?
To me....with the rise in temperatures well above freezing, any problem in the pipe could possibly easily be corrected by using a syringe to draw the oil up from the tank...or by the Lock Out Button being overoad for a while.
Also of course.....it might just be the Boiler that is at fault after all!
In which case I am not going to be a very happy Bunny!
Best Regards
Kenny Thain.

 

[boozercruiser]

It's in your picture, the lowest one, the bit facing downward at 45 deg angle it has a wheelhead top.

O.K. Thanks....I think I have got it.

But you know that first screw I turned a bit, and the oil started to rise out of it...(I stopped then) can you tell me what that is for.....and should I try and turn it any way at all to tighten it in?

I am concerned that I may have loosened it up....and it may pop out and I can say goodbye to a few hundred pounds worth of oil!

Oh!..and did I mention that I have a river down the bottom of the garden?

Yes....I know....tell me about it!

In any case......it's dark and cold outside now (Light and cold in here!)
So thats it 'till the morning.

 

[boozercruiser]

That valve looks hellish close to the ground
And the bowl filter looks hellish close to the valve.....?
John

Tell me about it!

 

[Burnerman]

Kenny, I think that originally there was a lever attached with that self tapping screw and it was a quarter of a turn ball valve. Some of these were indeed sprung so its best left well alone.
Thanks to Tibbots expertise you can turn your oil off via the turn wheel that is sticking into the ground
The only reason I mentioned that is because being a plastic tank, I wouldn't want to see any strain on the outlet.
I'm sure that anyone competent, and preferably without a chip on his shoulder would sort your problem very quickly.
Personally I couldn't live with myself if I'd done this job and I would continue until it was sorted.
John

 

[boozercruiser]

Kenny, I think that originally there was a lever attached with that self tapping screw and it was a quarter of a turn ball valve. Some of these were indeed sprung so its best left well alone.
Thanks to Tibbots expertise you can turn your oil off via the turn wheel that is sticking into the ground
The only reason I mentioned that is because being a plastic tank, I wouldn't want to see any strain on the outlet.
I'm sure that anyone competent, and preferably without a chip on his shoulder would sort your problem very quickly.
Personally I couldn't live with myself if I'd done this job and I would continue until it was sorted.
John

Thanks for that further info Johh

As he was pulling away I thought it wa really a bit mean leaving us with no hot water or heating. Even then I thought he could have done a bit more.
I was going to give hin £20 anyway if he had got it going for us.

Being Pensioners we are home most of the time....so a week end and longer was and is not a nice proposition this cold winter.

Still....I have fired off the above E. Mail....and it will be interesting to see what way Worcester react.

Just as an aftermention. We have an Energy Monitor called a Watson which tells us exactly how much energy we are using and the cost of.

Right now I am looking over at the bright red digital read out and it says...

6450 Watts. With leccy fires, lights, tv, computer etc. going.

Now then, for every ONE WATT that anyone leaves on for a whole year costs ONE POUND.

So I am not a very happy Bunny right now.

 

[boozercruiser]

The other knob is a shut off valve I think but as I've said I don't recognise this particular valve.

It is indeed the shut off. Works like manual rad valve. Keep turning clockwise til' shut. Surprised you don't see these Burnerman, more popular than Atkinson's on older tanks our way.

Hi again.....O.K. I seem to have turned off the oil by going clockwise as advised.

The other underneath nut (the second one from the Tank Outlet) which as I understand it holds the filter.

I can just about get a spanner on it, and it seems really stiff.

Cound you please advise me if I need to go clockwise or anti clockwise with that.?

As has been mentioned by John....the handwheel (too tight to turn by hand) and the underneath filter bolt are HELLISHLY close to the ground.

The space between it and the slab is a knacks cock!

I guess you guys are all at work today....and god....aren't there a lot of people who come to this excellent forum for help.

You guys who give your time here to help are nothing short of wonderfull.

P.S. I have uploaded another photo to try and show just how close that handwheel is to the floor!

 

[Burnerman]

Hello Kenny
I guess you've turned the oil off by using some pliers then......thats fair enough.
The filter bowl will have the usual right hand thread but if the metal looks like alloy then I'd go very carefully.
If you are sure the oil is off, perhaps you could undo the oil pipe line after the filters and decant some kero into a jar - just to see if its flowing and if its clean? Just crack the nut open if you're unsure.
I personally would want some clearance under that tap and filter - it could be possible to dig out with an angle grinder or something....but again you would have to be very carefull. Maybe when the tank was installed and therefore empty there was more clearance but its still not what it should be.
At a later date, a separate bowl type filter could be fitted elsewhere on the oil line if you want. Just a point to consider.
Time that 'engineer' showed up!
John

 

[boozercruiser]

Hello Kenny
I guess you've turned the oil off by using some pliers then......thats fair enough.
The filter bowl will have the usual right hand thread but if the metal looks like alloy then I'd go very carefully.
If you are sure the oil is off, perhaps you could undo the oil pipe line after the filters and decant some kero into a jar - just to see if its flowing and if its clean? Just crack the nut open if you're unsure.
I personally would want some clearance under that tap and filter - it could be possible to dig out with an angle grinder or something....but again you would have to be very carefull. Maybe when the tank was installed and therefore empty there was more clearance but its still not what it should be.
At a later date, a separate bowl type filter could be fitted elsewhere on the oil line if you want. Just a point to consider.
Time that 'engineer' showed up!
John

O.K....and thank you for your continued support John.

Actually, that wheel will turn up and down quite easily by hand now....plus I gave a quick spray of WD40.

The Filter one is a right sod though. I have used an adjustable spanner on it and I can't get it to move....and of course like you say....I need to go easy.

I am going down to the tank now and will have a gentle go on that nut.

Incidentaly, I just telephoned the Worcester Engineer who came out. He reckons the problem is not the boiler.....he said that he has even put a brand new £900 burner unit in it.

He said that he can do no more....just said that the problem is either the Tiger Loop or in the line down to the tank.

He can do no more.

I have just ordered a new Tiger Loop for £22 from Travis Perkins (My Wife is Staff...though retired now). I will have it Wednesday.

If I haven't got the ruddy thing working by then...I will phone someone from yellow pages to come and fit the new Tiger Loop and make sure of the line right down to the Tank turnon/turn off opening.

 

[boozercruiser]

Hello Kenny
I guess you've turned the oil off by using some pliers then......thats fair enough.
The filter bowl will have the usual right hand thread but if the metal looks like alloy then I'd go very carefully.
If you are sure the oil is off, perhaps you could undo the oil pipe line after the filters and decant some kero into a jar - just to see if its flowing and if its clean? Just crack the nut open if you're unsure.
I personally would want some clearance under that tap and filter - it could be possible to dig out with an angle grinder or something....but again you would have to be very carefull. Maybe when the tank was installed and therefore empty there was more clearance but its still not what it should be.
At a later date, a separate bowl type filter could be fitted elsewhere on the oil line if you want. Just a point to consider.
Time that 'engineer' showed up!
John

\furth...I opened that nut to release the oil pipe....and only a tine trickle came out of it.....and I was expecting a fair bit as of course the tank is about 9 ft from upper level.

So perhaps the problem is in that filter...which right now I cannot loosen.

 

[Burnerman]

Hi Kenny
So, either the tank is empty
Or the valve(s) aren't doing what they should
Or the filter is blocked!
At least we seem to be getting somewhere!
John

 

[boozercruiser]

Hi Kenny
So, either the tank is empty
Or the valve(s) aren't doing what they should
Or the filter is blocked!
At least we seem to be getting somewhere!
John

Hello again John....yes, perhaps we are getting somewhere?

Oil? The tank is a 2,650 one and it is about 2 thirds full.

I hope the problem is not with valves...and I am going to have another gentle go to clean the filter after my lunch.

At least I know it cannot be a freeze or something in the oil pipe line....otherwise I guess at least a reasonable amount of oil would have come out of that pipe.

In the meantime....it may give some amusement to some if they have nothing better to do! to read the below E. mail I have just sent to Worcester.

Best Regards

kenny.

The Manager
Customer Relations
Worcester Bosch

Dear Sir or Madam,
Last Friday 21st January 2011 I had cause to call out your engineer because my Worcester Heatslave Condensing Combination Boiler had gone into 'lock out'. The engineer gave a good try at fixing it and returned first thing on Saturday with a replacement burner and this did not correct the situation either.

Your engineer (Rob) advised me that in his opinion the problem is between the Tiger Loop (the oil tank bottom is around 9 foot lower down than the boiler) and the oil tank. He advised that possibly the oil in the line has frozen, went off in his van, and as far as I am concerned left me in the rap.

In order to try and get some help with this I turned to the very informative Forum www.diynot.com and my full post can be read at

//www.diynot.com/forums/viewtopic.php?t=259754&postdays=0&postorder=asc&start=0

In my post a very nice person trying to help gave the following opinion.......
"The problem with using a boiler manufacturer to maintain your boiler is that they stop as soon as the fault is not connected to the boiler.

Worcester in particular have been proactive in trying to get householders like you to sign up with them rather than using the installer or other independent service company like mine, but as soon as the going gets tough they quote some nonsense from the small print and walk away ...leaving the householder in the lurch!!

An Independent Service Company would continue his diagnosis back towards the oil tank and resolve the fault for the client

Most independents can provide break-down insurance (such as Blue-Fin / Aviva, which is more comprehensive than manufacturer;s policies

I would seriously consider who maintains your boiler in future!! hope this helps!! (rant over!)"

So with respect....what do you think about that opinion then?

Even to my know nothing expertise in the Central Heating field what he is saying is pretty obvious and with respect and in my humble opinion is a very serious flaw in Worcester Bosch servicing policy...is it not?

From what I can find out it just might have needed your engineer to use a syringe to see if oil can be drawn up the line.

One thing is for sure.....it cannot now be because of the oil being frozen as we have been well above freezing for days here now.

In the meantime......my Wife and I, who are retired pensioners have no central heating and hot water.

To the point....I think it rather cruel of your Engineer to just up and leave us in the mire like that, where possibly just a few minutes of further investigation may have got the central heating on.

A further observation for me is that possibly....just possibly the fault is after all at the boiler. If it is then how can he check that the boiler is in 100% working order if no oil is going into the burner?

Surely part of his brief should be to have an oil supply. I mean...how can he work on the boiler with no oil? Perhaps he could have used his expertise to achieve that?

Me? I know nothing. But if it does turn out that the problem is indeed the boiler....I am going to be even more of an unhappy bunny than I am now!

Best Regards

Kenny Thain.

P.S. I sent off a similar letter by E. Mail to your service dept last night.....but I have heard nothing back as yet.