Profit on profit?

[SmallSpaceGirl]

Facts: decorator's on a day rate plus materials costs. Rate is not cheap for area and no discount was asked for.

Problem: the following seem unreasonable to me, can you let me know if there's a reason why he's adding/changing the deal?
(1) a flat markup % on materials costs (I specify the materials which he then buys). NB I had no problem paying the day rate whether time is spent decorating or going to get materials etc. Surely this should be enough so he's not out of pocket and makes his profit (built into day rate)?
(2) a bad reaction when I agreed to the % markup but asked to see the bills for materials. Otherwise how do I know hes not overcharging the materials costs and then adding the %?
(3) quotes from his subcontractors that keep changing when I haven't changed anything. Is there any point of a quote which changes every day a subcontractors on site?

Is all this just trying to hide the fact that he quoted his day rate too low? Is there a good reason for (1) (2) or (3)?

 

[Growler]

I may be alone here (again) but ....I think You're right

That's an excellent point that your already paying him to go for the paint, except he could justly claim he's using his vehicle and therefore shouldn't be out of pocket.
(2) and (3) I think you're right again and I'm a self employed decorator but.....I'm far toooooooooooo nice for my own good.

 

[Zampa]

I may be alone here (again) but ....I think You're right

That's an excellent point that your already paying him to go for the paint, except he could justly claim he's using his vehicle and therefore shouldn't be out of pocket.
(2) and (3) I think you're right again and I'm a self employed decorator but.....I'm far toooooooooooo nice for my own good.

A quote is a legal binding contract...he should be made to stick to it..its not as fleixible as a estimate.

 

[Growler]

But....
Say you call someone out to fix your boiler, they go away, get a part and fix it. You then get a bill for work done, plus cost of part, it's unlikely they'd give you the same bill for the part that they'd paid for it.
Same if you want your car fixed...they bang a load of money on the parts.
A plumber would never give you the bill for stuff that they've bought, they make loads of money on the materials, billed separately afterwards.

It's always been the case that painters and decorators aren't supposed to make money on paint.
I've heard it a thousand times from customers - You get the paint, because you'll be able to get it cheaper than us- then they want the discount
I've even done insurance jobs, stuck to the quote and the customer has wanted the profit out of the wallpaper.

 

[Zampa]

Your right there growl...

I stopped doing insurance jobs years back because of a couple of reasons...1...9/10 the 'customer' was just using you for a quote and to get info, then they would kop the money and do the job themselves....2 I found the more people were getting for nothing the more they wanted...same as grant jobs.

'oh can you just include this'...

Always makes me laugh, people will happily pay over the odds for a can of paint just in case you dare make a profit on it....but they dont want to pay you roughly the same price per hour to put on a couple of coats

The amount of times ive heard 'oh we'll get the paint'...a customer once insisted on buying 15 gallons of masonry paint at a whopping £25 each...I made a point of telling them I could have got the same brand but trade quality for £13!...the woman in the shop used to book it out as white) their faces were a picture!

I never used to bother trying to make anything on the paint though

Spacegirl...it does sound like they are trying to have you on though...trust plays a part in any agreement..he may have been offended that you asked to see the bills...but then again, if it had been me I would have produced them even before the customer mentioned it.

One quesion...hy are they doing it on day work?

 

[D.S.D]

yep! why are they on day work. If you do not know your client really well then daywork with materials on top always causes probs. Same if you do not know your decorator. normal 2 day job could strech to five if you get a cowboy. I always do the job on a price, 9/10 times its a written quote and not an etimate. Yes I do get the materials cheaper, it is an aqdvantage of having accounts with your suppliers and no I do not pass the benifits of that to the client. They pay for the goods themselves if they want to get it themselves.

I would in future get all quotes/estimates in writting and go for an all in price it stops a lot of grief....both ways.