Programmer being confusing!!

[Doallyn]

Hi,

I've just rewired the electrics for my heating system as it was a mess before, i've wired everything up as it says it should be but i seem to be getting the wrong signals from the programmer

Its 3-port valve system with HW / CH operating sepeartly on the programmer.

I seem to be getting HW ON and HW OFF at the same time, i can see live current coming from both wires from the programmer?!? this is causing a short when the cylinder stat is on as there is current in both Satisfied and Calling

The CH ON works fine from the programmer and there is no CH OFF

I just can't figure out why i'm getting current from bother ON / OFF wires from the programmer

Any thoughts?

Cheers
Alex

 

[simond]

Bet you are not seeing current from HW off and HW on. Have you discon the other controls and checked the output from the programmer on HW on and HW off when nothing is connected?

My money says you have a wiring error.

 

[Blasphemous]

Programmer being confusing!!

Hey it Friday Night... few glasses of wine etc...

I reckon you've got one of them Female Programmers. Don't try and make it do what you want it to do. Just let it do what it wants.

As I said...Friday...few glasses of wine.... It gives me courage

 

[Rich_Mortimer]

Morning Alex.

Did you atleast get some CH last night via the manual valve switch?
In regards to the Programmer, can you see the full lenght of the cable or is it ducted? Some"Builders" try and extend cabling and join them in a blanked double socket. The colours you're looking at for signals may be different at each end if so.
May be wrong but it is saturday morning after all!
Good Luck.

 

[Doallyn]

No joy on anything

I've got the CH and HW activated but still getting no heat up to the pump - the wiring still gives current on the HW ON and HW OFF - its a fresh 5 core cable too i may just wire in the CH OFF and see what comes out of that - i'm out of ideas

the valve is mid position at the moment but nothing is coming up - the pipes from teh boiler are nice and warm but its not reaching this far

 

[MANDATE]

There is no CH OFF terminal.
The CH switch is basically a one way it's on or not on.( one output only to room stat)
The HW switch is basically a two way it's has two outputs, but not at the same time.
One output goes to cylinder stat and when that wire is not live because HW is OFF the alternative wire goes to the grey on your 3 port valve.
So in all there are three outputs from your programmer, but you can only get two at any time. CH and HW ON or.......... CH and HW OFF.

Like wise your cylinder stat has two outputs (two way) one output to light boiler and if HW water is satisfied, power is diverted to join up with the same grey mentioned above.
To get valve to move from mid positon to CH only grey must be live so either HW is switched OFF or if on then it must be satisfied.

 

[Softus]

Is the pump actually running? Have you done the test that simond rightly pointed out to you?

 

[Doallyn]

the plot thickens

I got myself a tester and there wasn't as you said HW ON / OFF at the same time - what i am getting though is a constant HW ON from the programmer - even when the programmer says its off the HW is still going, if i swap the HW ON / OFF around i then get nothing at all from the HW system - but the CH does what it should be doing

if i follow the diagram then i get HW ON constantly its like the programmer just doesn't care its giving me HW ON from point 3

 

[Doallyn]

Is the pump actually running? Have you done the test that simond rightly pointed out to you?

the pump is running, i can take the screw out and see the bit inside spinning round quite happily!

 

[Softus]

I think you're getting too embroiled in what the programmer is/isn't doing. I'm not saying that it isn't faulty, or perhaps not doing what you think it's doing, but you should be able to start at the other end and prove that other components are working.

For circulation of hot water to the cylinder you need:

1. A complete circuit that's full of water (and no air!).
2. No closed valves in that circuit.
3. A pump that's running (if a fully pumped system).
4. A working boiler that is making the water hot.

Regardless of what the programmer is doing, which of the above do you have?

Tip: don't assume anything.

 

[Doallyn]

I think you're getting too embroiled in what the programmer is/isn't doing. I'm not saying that it isn't faulty, or perhaps not doing what you think it's doing, but you should be able to start at the other end and prove that other components are working.

For circulation of hot water to the cylinder you need:

1. A complete circuit that's full of water (and no air!).
2. No closed valves in that circuit.
3. A pump that's running (if a fully pumped system).
4. A working boiler that is making the water hot.

Regardless of what the programmer is doing, which of the above do you have?

Tip: don't assume anything.

fair enough - looking at it here's what i think

1. I believe so, although how can i prove it? the radiators are all full, the pump is dripping water and the little air vent going into the cylinder is leaking water - there are no other vents

2. all valves open - the tap on the cold feed and the two valves either side of the pump are set to open

3. the pump is running, i can see it spinning

4. the boiler is firing and is hot and so is the top pipe coming out of the boiler

i've just got no "flow" in the system - which must mean the pump!?? is there any way to check that the water is actually circulating!?

 

[MANDATE]

If the pump is running but not functioning correctly, then I would suspect the impeller may be loose or broken. I have removed my pump motor housing only ( 4 screws) to examine and test ( with isolating valves closed ).
Also if the pump is not pumping neither HW or CH would work.
An air lock ( or blockage) seems to the only reason for no circulation using a satisfactory pump

The 3 port valve is rather complex and for checking purposes I would not choose HW and CH at the same time.
With HW only does everything function ok.eg cylinder stat and pump.

With CH only does valve move to the mid position and on CH only position from the HW only position, does boiler light up. If it can't go beyond mid way it's because (a) no live grey wire or (b) faulty motor in valve. Valves have been known to move correctly but will not light boiler due to faulty microswitch in valve circuit board

 

[Softus]

i've just got no "flow" in the system - which must mean the pump!?

I concur. I'd replace it. But then I've got them in stock.

is there any way to check that the water is actually circulating!?

Start boiler; wait two minutes; grip pipe near pump with hand.

If you find yourself yelling "OUCH" then you have circulation. Otherwise not.

 

[megawatt]

Only thing I'd add to Softus's post is ... Get someone else to do the pipe heat test