Puma 80

[Softus]

How ever you have still not answered my question is the AFR built in to the cold water supply cock, provided by the manufacturer

And you've still not replaced that wax capsule, or removed the DV to see if its sticking.

I know what you’re thinking. Did he already suggest this five times or six? Well, to tell you the truth, in all this commotion I’ve lost track myself. So you got to ask yourself one question: will someone else answer you?

Well, will they park?”

 

[ChrisR]

Park, forget about the AFR for now. It's in the manuals if you want to find it. They don't often give any trouble.

You've found a bad joint - then deal with it. Either get the equipment and skills and resolder it , or a new board. If it's the one at the top left of the board, it's very common. I once counted cracked solder joints on a puma board - well into double figures. The relays burn out too.

Then

When you turn the water on full(ish), does the flame come on and stay on, say for a couple of miniutes?
If so then leave tap running and:
Measure the water flow rate
How hot is the water - cold, tepid, usable for a shower but coolish...
Also, without touching the tap, measure the gas flow rate at the meter. This will either be an imperial meter in which case time how long it takes for 1cu ft on the rapidly turning dial, or metric with digits, in which case time it for 2 minutes and record the readings so you can work out the difference.
Now go and feel the Heating flow pipe under the boiler - is it hot?
Now turn the tap off and tell us what you found.

 

[park]

Park, forget about the AFR for now. It's in the manuals if you want to find it. They don't often give any trouble.

Page 4 of manual, item 20-cold water supply cock (inc. automatic flow regulator)

You've found a bad joint - then deal with it. Either get the equipment and skills and resolder it , or a new board. If it's the one at the top left of the board, it's very common. I once counted cracked solder joints on a puma board - well into double figures. The relays burn out too.

No have had PCB out and checked all joints - no problems

Also, without touching the tap, measure the gas flow rate at the meter. This will either be an imperial meter in which case time how long it takes for 1cu ft on the rapidly turning dial, or metric with digits, in which case time it for 2 minutes and record the readings so you can work out the difference.

There I think we have found the problem, the gas flow rate is not as per manufacturer's figures, the gas rate is down by 0.21m*/hr. The gas service pipe sets off from the meter in 22mm, feeds a gas fire in the lounge, and a gas hob in the kitchen before landing at the boiler in 15mm
In short the gas supply to the boiler is not large enough it would seem.
The manufacturers manual indicates that 15mm gas supply will be adequate if the length of pipe from the boiler to the gas meter is less than 3m, longer lengths will require 22mm pipe.
So it would indicate that the boiler was not installed correctly when the house was built.
Note I have reduced the d.h.w. flow rate by altering the MFR located under the d.h.w expansion vessel, the hot water is now acceptable, but in order to replace the combi boiler it will mean upgrading the 15mm gas service to 22mm, since all modern combi's demand a high gas flow rate for hot water generation.

 

[Softus]

Are you suggesting that the user of the appliance has never had a correct DHW service?

 

[ChrisR]

Park, what an annoying individual you are.
You seem to think that you don't need advice, you can work it all out and you know the answers.
You do, you can't and you don't.

Your deduction from the one measurement you have made is wrong, and you haven't answered the other questions.

I had a manager like you once.

I sacked him.

 

[Softus]

Since checking the PCB is within the scope of most DIYers, you could choose to this next.

Having removed all the power, checked the PCB for poor joints, found one, what do I do. Can I re-solder the suspect joint? Or do I buy a new PCB

You've found a bad joint - then deal with it. Either get the equipment and skills and resolder it , or a new board.

No have had PCB out and checked all joints - no problems

You're either a troll or a mentalist.

 

[park]

Having removed all the power, checked the PCB for poor joints, found one, what do I do. Can I re-solder the suspect joint? Or do I buy a new PCB

That was a question,I was asking what should I do, could I re-solder it or would I need to buy a new PCB.

No have had PCB out and checked all joints - no problems

Read the first part of the quote again

 

[Softus]

Welll, I have to thank you for introducing me to a truly unique experience - someone who defies description.

have a Happy Easter park. I mean it, really, I do. It's just that I have to bow out of this right now for the sake of my own sanity.

 

[park]

Welll, I have to thank you for introducing me to a truly unique experience - someone who defies description.

have a Happy Easter park. I mean it, really, I do. It's just that I have to bow out of this right now for the sake of my own sanity.

And a Happy Easter to you Softus. Have fun

 

[Agile]

Having removed all the power, checked the PCB for poor joints, found one, what do I do.

That was a question,I was asking what should I do, could I re-solder it or would I need to buy a new PCB.

Perhaps you should follow the usual convention of putting a question mark at the end of the sentence containing the question so that anyone reading it knows its a question!

Your clever adjustment of the flow rate inside the boiler has no more effect than you would have obtained by turning a hot tap down lower.

When a boiler engineer says the hot water performance is "OK" that means he has measured both the flow rate and temperature rise. A 24 kW boiler like yours gives about 9.3 litres per minute raised by 35°C.

Tony

 

[park]

Having removed all the power, checked the PCB for poor joints, found one, what do I do.

That was a question,I was asking what should I do, could I re-solder it or would I need to buy a new PCB.

Perhaps you should follow the usual convention of putting a question mark at the end of the sentence containing the question so that anyone reading it knows its a question!

May be you are correct there, but I would have thought that the statement " what should I do" was as good as a question mark ?

Your clever adjustment of the flow rate inside the boiler has no more effect than you would have obtained by turning a hot tap down lower.

I would refer you to page 19 of the Puma manual,(commissioning) item 3.6 D.H.W. flow rate. to quote " the flow rate can be further reduced by using the manual flow restrictor.

When a boiler engineer says the hot water performance is "OK" that means he has measured both the flow rate and temperature rise. A 24 kW boiler like yours gives about 9.3 litres per minute raised by 35°C.

9.8 litres/min which gives a nominal temperature rise of 35*C

 

[ChrisR]

9.8 litres/min which gives a nominal temperature rise of 35*C

There you go again. Trying to prove something - other than what a **** you are.

Does it not occur to you that not only do we have all the manuals, that we know what's in them pretty well verbatim, and in many cases could write much better ones?

You need therapy, pal.

 

[park]

The DHW flow rate of the puma 80 is listed as nominal at 9.8litres/min, this flow rate will give a nominal temperature rise of 35*C which in turn means that the DHW at the tap is hotter in summer than it is in winter, since there will be a reduction in temperature of the incoming MCW in winter. Should it be desired to set the appliance to give a higher temperature rise, the flow can be further reduced by using the manual flow restrictor located in the manifold below the mini expansion vessel. Doing this would help to offset the reduction in DHW temperature at the tap in winter.

+++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++

There you go again. Trying to prove something - other than what a **** you are.

I'm not trying to prove anything, think it's you trying to show how "good" a "boiler engineer" you are, have you ever worked on "proper boilers"

Does it not occur to you that not only do we have all the manuals, that we know what's in them pretty well verbatim, and in many cases could write much better ones?

Now you are being silly

You need therapy, pal.

No it's you that needs the therapy sunsine.............get a life

 

[Softus]

...think it's you trying to show how "good" a "boiler engineer" you are, have you ever worked on "proper boilers"

Assuming that this is another question-without-a-question-mark, and knowing that ChrisR is too much of a gentleman to stoop to answer you, I'll point out that he is one of the most knowledgable boiler and heating engineers on the forum. If you've not read any of his posts then you wouldn't know that, but that would make you an ar*se. If you have read his posts and still think he isn't knowledgable, then you've just illustrated how little you know.

Does it not occur to you that not only do we have all the manuals, that we know what's in them pretty well verbatim, and in many cases could write much better ones?

Now you are being silly.

Er, no, he really isn't.

 

[park]

Assuming that this is another question-without-a-question-mark

No that was a statement of fact, not a question

If you've not read any of his posts then you wouldn't know that, but that would make you an ar*se.

I will ignore that comment, because it just shows how immature you are.

Er, no, he really isn't.

I think the term, was the royal "we" have all the manuals, have you read them? (that is a question)