PV- Is there a business case ?

[riveralt]

With my current monthly bill at £220,

You must live in a mansion mate

if this reduces that (and it already is) then it should take me about 2.5 years to recoup based on savings alone. With the FIT, even less (in 8 weeks I am due a cheque for £86 for FIT).

My monthly bill is £93 for Gas & Electricity - you would be better off investing in this
http://www.homebase.co.uk/webapp/wc...partNumber=481240&Trail=searchtext>INSULATION
than one of the most inefficient and expensive forms of electricity know to mankind.

If you have that much sun you would be better of using it to heat water.

 

[crappy]

I certainly don't live in a mansion - I live in a "normal" house. My issues is the PO had a hardon for spot lights. My kitchen - 18, TV room - 18, hallway - 16, study - 12 etc etc etc. We don't have a single "normal" light. Simply watching TV in a room requires 180+W of lighting
Having replaced them all with either CF or LED has made a big difference. A big stick with the wife and tumble dryer has also helped.

Gas is not a major factor in the bill - it's mostly electricity (I also have some servers running 24x7)

My point is that PV can actually work - pity not many people are doing it correctly. Everyone seems to take the dumb approach which only strengthens the naysayers stance.
Sure, it's not as efficient as, say, nuclear but I don't see it as a wasteful "investment"

 

[smelly007]

Common this topic needs to increase in size.

I want to install a 10 Kw PV system sourced direct from China.
I am lucky enough to have both aspect and space.
The cost of this will be $10,000 plus delivery and customs. $1,000.

The supply will be fraught with potential problems as I know from previous purchases and returns.

Not with standing the above how likely would it be for me to have it connected to sell back to the power company?
Does anyone have experience of home install.

I am also considering a wind turbine.

Do you know that a simple way to heat hot water is to get a 500w PV panel with an output of 12 volts and install a 12 volt immersion heater?

No expensive rubbish just a thermostat and overheat stat.

Installing wet solar systems are expensive and problematic with potential to cross contaminate your drinking water. That said I have heated the 8,000 gallon pool to 30 deg using a simple wet system.

-smelly

 

[crappy]

Only clue to your location is the $ sign. Let's assume it's the US and not Zimbabwe.

In the UK you cannot sell back to the grid if you do not purchase approved kit. This includes PV panels, grid-tie inverter etc. It also has to be installed / signed off by a certified sparky.

If you can prove your kit is good then maybe you could.

I opted for the more expensive kit but get the rebates. I get a cheque for roughly £600 a quarter. Might not be making me rich but my system cost me around £5k and it negates my electricity bill

 

[JohnW2]

Only clue to your location is the $ sign. Let's assume it's the US and not Zimbabwe.

"Gloucestershire" might also count as a clue!

Kind Regards, John

 

[flameport]

The cost of this will be $10,000 plus delivery and customs. $1,000.

$1000 for what?
20% VAT and anti-dumping duties will far exceed $1000.

Not with standing the above how likely would it be for me to have it connected to sell back to the power company?

Not going to happen.

 

[smelly007]

Well I certainly agree that nothing can be installed without a CE mark,
you know the symbol of a closed shop that is the European trading block.

The import duties applied that make sure all foreign goods are competitively priced so as not to put out of business one of Europe's own.
In a lot of ways the EU keeps the costs we up.

It is difficult when importing to rely on Chinese CE marks as sometimes they are not worth the paper they are written on.

Of course testing and product materials are paramount to ensure safety.

Thank you Mr Crappy I obviously can't risk $10k as the Chinese export is priced in dollars. So I will look to approved systems over here.

I do like the idea of a PV charging a battery to run the lighting circuits.
Anybody know the the location of suitable regulation and standards?

With regard to fuel poverty and the serious situations found, I think rather than blame individuals you need to look further up the chain at the Politicians you vote for who have sold off all the utilities from power companies to transport companies including the car companies.
A lot of these foreign companies make a profit out of living and life it'self and share it with their shareholders come what may.

Just look at your local council farming out the housing stock to 3rd party charity status thus requiring another layer of bureaucracy and wages.

The people we put in charge to manage our services just oversee the sell off.

 

[ericmark]

My daughter has hot water solar panels and so does my father-in-law. Daughters work well but with no insulation on the tank showers in the evening not morning. However hers are in Turkey.

Father-in-law in North Wales are a total waste of money. They will in summer heat the water to around 40 degrees. But in winter there is not enough heat to trigger the circulation pump.

He thought it was working well until he had his cooker changed and the pilot flame went out on his gas boiler. Then no hot water not even the chill removed. It would seem he had an immersion heater which was removed when solar panels were fitted so his electric bill went down. That was simply as water now heated by gas.

Electric panels don't need the sun they only need light and also less energy is lost in pipework. So best way to heat water from solar in UK is to use electric panels and an immersion heater.

But although excess energy can be used to heat the water the cost of the unit to switch it on means it is unlikely to pay for its self.

With a flat roof as my daughters house has in Turkey with of course some low walls so you will not fall off it then to install panels able to follow the sun both azimuth and direction you can clearly gain more power. But what would it cost? At the moment there is debate if East and West facing or South facing is best. It is all down to maximum output before you jump to next tariff and when they start and finish generating each day.

But as yet we have no idea about maintenance costs. Neither can we predict interest rates. They have not been up 25 years and when I visited the alternative technology centre where they tested water versions it was interesting to see the time before they failed. Some were very short lived.

We also have the technical problem of feeding the power back into the grid. One solar panelled house in an estate great. But 20 houses all on the same supply transformer that's some thing else.

So you install your panels and then everyone else follows. To start with bills are reduced but then it starts disconnecting from grid due to the voltage rising to much. You complain and the tapping on transformer are altered but there is a limit. At 253.1 volt the software in the panel assumes there is likely a break in the supply network so shuts the panel down. To allow all other panels in the street to close down it has to remain down for a set time. So what happens is the panel with highest voltage set works A1 and one with lowest voltage set hardly ever works at mid day.

Now as the house holder you have no access to the software which says when it will switch off. But those fitting panels by hiring roof space do. All they need to do is set their software to 253.2 when yours is set to 253 and by mid day theirs are working and yours is not.

As more and more are being fitted this safety feature is becoming more and more of a problem. Until the DNO start fitting transformers which auto change tapping to allow for voltage change or the -6% and plus 10% is increased to -10% plus 10% there will be a problem where too many houses have solar panels.

 

[smelly007]

Very interesting and informative post eric. thank you.
as a point we have 22k overhead with a single pole mounted transformer dedicated to us.

I think I might take up some free offer surveys to glean more imfomation.

 

[westie101]

The voltage limits quoted by Ericmark are not quite correct, nor the effect on other customers
(I deal with these issues as part of my duties)

I'll find an quote the actual limits the equipment is set to on Monday

To the OP
To connect more than 4kW you have to apply to your DNO in advance to allow a networks check to be completed prior to connection, this check may be chargeable to yourself