Pyronix Enforcer HomeControl+ losing the time all the time

[dpm_dpmartin]

Has anyone else ever seen this?

I had a brand new Pyronix Enforcer HomeControl+ with WiFi module installed by a professional company as part of a house refurbishment - the house also had a full rewire and is certified as you'd expect, new Consumer Board, new fused spur for the alarm. My issue is that the Pryonix panel keeps losing the time!

You take a look at it, and it'll be hours out. Not a few minutes or anything like that. It's not a slow and gradual thing - it just loses the right time by a massive amount.

Once I went to reset the time on the panel to be correct - it was 16:09 when I did that - and I then went away to do some other stuff. I came back less than 1 hour later and the clock showed 21:55.

Now - the time that I spent away from the panel might have been 46 minutes (55 minus 9) and it could've just jumped by 5 hours, but maintained the minutes - 16:00 to 21:00 - but it's got me scratching my head, I don't mind telling you.

I've spoken to the installer - helpful chap - and he's phoned Pyronix twice. Pryonix are saying it is something to do with the mains supply coming into the house. Apparently something to do with hertz and the clock in the alarm panel being sensitive to that. I asked him (and he asked them for me) whether any clock in the house would be going haywire - like the digital clock I have in the new Neff oven - it maintains time, and they're saying something about "mains frequency", "software" and "circuit boards" - gah!

The installer says he's willing to try another panel at this property... but I'm really curious if anyone else has ever heard of this happening?

Oh, and I told the installer this as well, if you stand right next to the panel, with your ear against it, you can hear it ticking - seriously, like some kind of old bedroom alarm clock, it's really very subtle and it needs to be quiet around you - have you ever heard of such a thing?

I can't tell if Pyronix are yanking my chain or whether this is something real.

 

[musszzy]

It kind off makes sense as texecom has a similar issue and it is down to the power supply. However texecom has a menu option to use the crystal which I assume is some kind of internal oscillator. Going on this logic you may have a psu issue. Would be interested in other answers you get to this thread.

 

[dpm_dpmartin]

Intriguing. I wonder if Pyronix has a similar option. I'm struggling to understand how something can be so sensitive. I'm also struggling to understand what my next steps night be. The electrics should be fine - everything else in the house works!

When you say PSU, what do you mean? The PSU in the panel? Something in the Consumer Board? Something at the meter? I'm no Sparkie... I just want normal off-the-shelf stuff to just work.

 

[sparkymarka]

I would get the installer to change the psu in the panel first , see if that cures the issue

 

[musszzy]

Well from what I can gather the mains frequency is 50hz and the clock relies on this to accurately keep time. If this is somehow corrupt/incorrect then the clock fails. I assume mains frequency is constant so can only assume the failure is in the psu/panel side.

 

[dpm_dpmartin]

Yes, I would think the panel has its own internal PSU, like any device does, that provides the stable power supply needed for it to operate. I will ask the installer about this.

 

[bernardgreen]

The 50Hz frequency of the mains is constant (*) and is perfectly acceptable as a clock timing source for all domestic timing accuracy.

The internal clock circuitry detects the 50 Hz frequency by counting the peaks of the waveform voltage. With clean mains there are 50 peaks per second. The problem arises when the mains are not clean and are "contaminated" by voltage spikes and dips from switch mode "electronic transformers" for lighting and other equipment. These dips and spikes create extra voltage peaks and a ( poorly designed ) clock circuit may count these false peaks as well as the 50 per second genuine peaks and thus the clock runs fast.

(*) the frequency does vary slightly during the day upto a maximum permitted +/- 1% As load on the network increases the rotation in generators slows down and the frequency drops and as loads reduce the generators run faster. During the night the speed of the generators is adjusted to ensure the count of cycles per day is 24 x 60 x 60 x 50

 

[dpm_dpmartin]

If your mains aren't clean... what do you do? How do you know? I doubt the electricity company would be pleased to send someone out to figure this out - just because some stupid alarm company can't make a basic clock that works (being a tad provocative there)... unlike the oven maker, who can... and I bet anything else that might have a clock would work.

Seriously hoping there's a defect with the panel or part of it.

 

[musszzy]

Problem you have is until you can try it then it will be hard to prove. I have literally hundreds of enforcers installed.... So far without this problem. See if you can get the psu replaced. Also there is a device called a mains spike suppressor that could be fitted to the fused spur which may solve this issue.

 

[dpm_dpmartin]

My installer has said more or less exactly the same thing... he's installed many of these, not once has he had that problem reported. His offer to try a new panel might do it. I am loathe to start a stupid conversation with Northern Powergrid... "I think my mains supply is contaminated!" ..."Sir, are you aware you're not calling Yorkshire Water?"

 

[bernardgreen]

I am loathe to start a stupid conversation with Norther Powergrid

If it is a problem due to an "un-clean" mains supply to the panel then the source of the "dirt" on the mains will almost certainly be something inside the house.

 

[musszzy]

If it is a problem due to an "un-clean" mains supply to the panel then the source of the "dirt" on the mains will almost certainly be something inside the house.

Ask for a filter to be fitted too or try and narrow down the source.

 

[dpm_dpmartin]

The installer and I had a chat and we decided to monitor it... last week I reset the time and then I will have the real time and the panel time recorded at irregular intervals; just to see if it sheds any light on the situation (which we both accept it may not). Apparently, Pyronix has told him that in other regions (Europe?) they don't use the same means of measuring or calculating time - they use a software clock - so it's a bit beyond me why they'd elect to do this just for the UK (if true).

 

[dpm_dpmartin]

Interesting that the panel time doesn't seem to be continually running away from the actual time, rather seems to have settled at an offset of 6 hours or so... I may continue to monitor this:

				RESET HERE					
Actual Time		07 Sep 2016 16:26		07 Sep 2016 16:42		09 Sep 2016 09:23		10 Sep 2016 19:05		12 Sep 2016 10:53		12 Sep 2016 19:02
Panel Time		07 Sep 2016 16:26		07 Sep 2016 16:42		09 Sep 2016 15:51		11 Sep 2016 01:09		12 Sep 2016 17:53		13 Sep 2016 01:46
Offset			00:00:00				00:00:00				06:28:00				06:04:00				07:00:00				06:44:00