Questions about storage rads.

[52classic]

We have a 2 bed, 80's build flat on 2nd floor. No gas available. Backstory is that we've operated it as a BTL for 10 years or more, no real probs.

Just before Christmas tenant phones to say "The heating isn't working." We provided some oil filled rads to meet the emergency until I could get over there & take a look properly but in the meantime she also phones the Council Enforcement people who serve an Enforcement Notice that the Storage Rads are not a suitable form of heating (even if fixed) because they are not controllable enough.

I 'm pretty savvy with DIY stuff although I have never worked on these rads before. I also know that these are not people to cross if you can help it!

Firstly, how are these supposed to work - They are apparently 'Economy 7'?
The incoming power seems quite neat, there's a dedicated consumer unit for them, each rad with its own 'breaker.' Second question is whether the heating circuit should be powered up at all times or only when the electricity is determined to be off peak?
Also, As a test for the heating unit itself, can I just put a 3 pin plug on and plug it into an ordinary socket? Test purposes only of course.

Finally, the wider question about whether 'ordinary' Storage radiators are suitable for this application these days and if not, what do you use in similar circumstances?

All help greatly appreciated.

 

[flameport]

Power is switched via the meter or some separate device, so that they are on for 7 hours overnight. Heat is stored during that period and released during the day. When properly sized and properly operated, the heat should last throughout the day and evening.
Their major problem is that it's necessary to heat the building all day whether it's needed or not. There is no real control over when heat is provided.

Usual failures are the thermal cutout inside operating when people drape towels and clothing over them to dry.
Thermostats can fail, although less likely.
The individual elements do also fail, but not all at once, when one fails the heater just stores less heat and won't be evenly hot, one side or the middle will be cooler.

If they have all failed suddenly then either they are switched off or there is some problem with the supply such as the meter, separate teleswitch, timer or whatever it's got.
Or they have just had a smart meter installed and the heating side was left disconnected as the installer didn't know what to do with it.

Old style storage heaters are not available now, the newer equivalents have a timer, fan and separate convector heater inside in a futile effort to make them more 'controllable' and allegedly save money.
They may be marginally better in some circumstances, but installing those in place of old ones will be upwards of £1000 per heater.

 

[BlueLoo]

Be a decent landlord and put in a proper CH system.

 

[EFLImpudence]

Just before Christmas tenant phones to say "The heating isn't working."

If none of the heaters is working it would suggest a problem with the supply. It is unlikely that all of the heaters or circuits would fail at the same time.

she also phones the Council Enforcement people who serve an Enforcement Notice that the Storage Rads are not a suitable form of heating (even if fixed) because they are not controllable enough.

Well, 'enough' might be true but is a bit vague yet there are millions of them still around.

I 'm pretty savvy with DIY stuff although I have never worked on these rads before. I also know that these are not people to cross if you can help it!

The heaters you have supplied will be controllable enough.

Firstly, how are these supposed to work - They are apparently 'Economy 7'?

They are full of bricks which are heated during the night when the electricity is cheaper - but not as cheap as it used to be.
They have a flap which can be used to release the heat at different rates but it is unlikely to last until the evening.
There are different rate timings which allow another three hours cheap heating in the afternoon - not E7.

Second question is whether the heating circuit should be powered up at all times or only when the electricity is determined to be off peak?

Just when the cheap 'off peak' rate applies - usually midnight until 7am.
In some premises all of the supply goes to cheap rate but then you require a timer to only switch on the heaters during the cheap time.

Also, As a test for the heating unit itself, can I just put a 3 pin plug on and plug it into an ordinary socket? Test purposes only of course.

Larger storage heaters are technically too big for 13A plugs and sockets but would be alright for a short time just to test.

Finally, the wider question about whether 'ordinary' Storage radiators are suitable for this application these days and if not, what do you use in similar circumstances?

As I said there are still many properties which have these storage heaters.
All that can be done to supplement them is other electric heaters which you have supplied but are very expensive to run.

 

[52classic]

Thanks very much Flameport. Great advice.

That's very plausible. I do know that the previous tenant had the Electricity provider out because they stopped working and they re-synced the meter for the off peak periods. Yes, there is a new meter since then.

Just for investigative purposes then, can I put a 3 pin plug on one radiator to test the unit?

Being a bit cheeky here but couldn't an Electrician rewire the consumer unit so that power is available to it 24/7, then run that through a programmer? OK, it is not Economy 7 but against rising gas prices we may be not so far out!

Wow...... A grand a unit! admittedly there are only 2 but it is expenditure I didn't want. I see some units which look like storage rads that claim to be 'Ceramic' They seem to get good reviews and are about £500 each for the sized I need. Could they be any good?

 

[Harry Bloomfield]

Wow...... A grand a unit! admittedly there are only 2 but it is expenditure I didn't want. I see some units which look like storage rads that claim to be 'Ceramic' They seem to get good reviews and are about £500 each for the sized I need. Could they be any good?

No, they are expensive 'smoke and mirrors'. So far as I am aware, they are not heat stores, only an heater, no better than oil filled and run at peak rate. No more or less efficient than oil heaters.

 

[52classic]

Brilliant responses, thanks very much.

Blue Loo..... I'd love to but electrical 'wet' systems don't impress me much. Would help if she was a good tenant and paid her rent on time!

EFL........ I had assumed that the heating circuit would be 2.5 cable like the ring main but from what you say it must be, say 4.0?

Thoughts arising from your advice may be to replace the rads with good quality wall mounted convectors and hard wire them as I proposed in my previous post. Cheap and cheerful but sounds to me that it would meet the regs.

 

[JohnW2]

Just when the cheap 'off peak' rate applies - usually midnight until 7am. In some premises all of the supply goes to cheap rate but then you require a timer to only switch on the heaters during the cheap time.

As far as I can make out, in contrast with the past, the great majority of dual-rate supplies (such as E7) now provide all of the supply at cheap rate during the cheap hours.

Kind Regards, John

 

[52classic]

Harry, I thought as much! However, I can't see that anything that holds heat will be able to discharge it in a controllable way (and get the council off my back) Although to be fair, the council's Officer is a pleasant lady, being as helpful as she can).

 

[JohnW2]

EFL........ I had assumed that the heating circuit would be 2.5 cable like the ring main but from what you say it must be, say 4.0?

Even though the largest storage heaters may draw a little more than 13A, hence not suitable for a plug/socket, 2.5 mm² cable will virtually always be adequate to supply one storage heater (depending upon how installed, it has a current-carrying capacity of up to 27A).

Kind Regards, John

 

[52classic]

That's interesting John, would that mean that given the age of the system, the main consumer unit is on 24/7 and also benefits from E7 but the heating one is somehow triggered by the E7 periods and is only live at that time?

 

[Harry Bloomfield]

Brilliant responses, thanks very much.

Blue Loo..... I'd love to but electrical 'wet' systems don't impress me much. Would help if she was a good tenant and paid her rent on time!

EFL........ I had assumed that the heating circuit would be 2.5 cable like the ring main but from what you say it must be, say 4.0?

Thoughts arising from your advice may be to replace the rads with good quality wall mounted convectors and hard wire them as I proposed in my previous post. Cheap and cheerful but sounds to me that it would meet the regs.

2.5mm is normally adequate for most storage heaters, but even if less than 13amps - I would not run one as a permanent install on a 13amp plug.

 

[52classic]

Thanks again for your post No 2 John. Understood re the cable. At the very least I have enough to test the system properly and gently challenge the council.

 

[52classic]

Just to reassure you Harry, I wasn't suggesting that. I just want to see what works and what doesn't!!

 

[JohnW2]

That's interesting John, would that mean that given the age of the system, the main consumer unit is on 24/7 and also benefits from E7 but the heating one is somehow triggered by the E7 periods and is only live at that time?

It could mean that. If you have E7 and a single (';dual rate') meter, which is switched between 'peak rate' and 'cheap rate' metering (by a time switch, 'teleswitch' or whatever), then all of your electricity usage during the night hours will be metered (hence charged) at the cheap rate.

Kind Regards, John