Questions about storage rads.

[northernhammer]

No, overpriced junk.

The only benefit of storage heaters is that they are cheaper to run, as they use cheaper electricity overnight - but they do involve heating the property all day, which some people may not need.

Any other form of electric heating which is just switched on when needed will cost the same to run.
Some types which contain oil, bricks, gel or whatever else will take longer to heat up but continue to release heat for a while when switched off.
Others such as convectors and fan heaters start heating immediately, but also stop immediately when off.
The actual heat provided compared to the electrical energy used is identical for all of them.

Plenty of companies selling overpriced devices which claim otherwise, the usual things are that they contain special ceramics, gels, aluminium from Italy, have controls so they are only on for 15 minutes each hour, magic thermostats which save 50% and so on. It's 100% lies.

The savings from snake oil heaters compared to old storage heaters are from where people are out most of the day, and only switch the heaters on for a couple of hours in the evening.
However the exact same savings will apply to any heater.

This 2kW convector heater for £23: https://www.argos.co.uk/product/9190629
will provide the exact same amount of heat as this £500+ item: https://www.heatershop.co.uk/electrorad-af05-aeroflow

Before you make any changes to the heating system, you must establish how that will affect the EPC rating for the property - as if it's too low, you won't be able to let it.

Sorry just stumbled on this post about storage heaters. Is this all true? As weirdly I was looking at the Aeroflow A7 model on here : https://www.electricradiatorshop.co.uk/electric-radiators/radiators-by-brand/aeroflow-radiators - I get a bit lost when it comes to electric heating but quite liked them, as they're a traditional looking radiators and look like they have a lot of clever features.

 

[Harry Bloomfield]

Sorry just stumbled on this post about storage heaters. Is this all true? As weirdly I was looking at the Aeroflow A7 model on here : https://www.electricradiatorshop.co.uk/electric-radiators/radiators-by-brand/aeroflow-radiators - I get a bit lost when it comes to electric heating but quite liked them, as they're a traditional looking radiators and look like they have a lot of clever features.

Those are not storage heaters, just electrically heated radiators and rather expensive for what they are. You turn them on (or program) for when you want heat. They are basically similar to oil filled electric heaters in performance - turn them on, 20 minutes later they are warm and begin to warm the room. No use at all if you walk into a cold room for half an hour, because they have a long lead time and lag time.

 

[winston1]

Sorry just stumbled on this post about storage heaters. Is this all true? As weirdly I was looking at the Aeroflow A7 model on here : https://www.electricradiatorshop.co.uk/electric-radiators/radiators-by-brand/aeroflow-radiators - I get a bit lost when it comes to electric heating but quite liked them, as they're a traditional looking radiators and look like they have a lot of clever features.

Yes it is all true. Especially this part:

This 2kW convector heater for £23: https://www.argos.co.uk/product/9190629
will provide the exact same amount of heat as this £500+ item: https://www.heatershop.co.uk/electrorad-af05-aeroflow

 

[SUNRAY]

The coincidence is: being highly recommended to me, I picked up one of these

This 2kW convector heater for £23: https://www.argos.co.uk/product/9190629

about 20 minutes before you posted.

 

[52classic]

I was about to say that Blue Loo was being harsh and judgemental but SUNRAY said it for me!! Thank you. In fact, thanks to everyone who posted. They say that true wisdom lies with those who ask questions so I have just popped back with an update. I eventually secured access to the property for survey and a sensible discussion with the tenant and then with the Council. Based on the knowledge obtained here coupled with recommendations from other landlords I ended up with a Creda CEP200e for the main room and smaller ones for the other 2 rooms from the same range. My electrician agreed that I would install the units and remove the old ones, then he would fit a new consumer unit and make the final connections, configured to ensure that electricity is available at all times at the units with the whole flat switching to off peak when it is appropriate.

So far, so good, heading for a positive outcome I think. However, I will post again when the job is all finished along with other electrical work being done there. Blue Loo asked if I would live there with my alter ego as a landlord? Unreservedly YES! I do hate having to use contractors for the reasons others have mentioned. I used to have a bank of good trades-people who I have known and respected for many years. Problem is that most of them have retired or died.

 

[winston1]

I ended up with a Creda CEP200e for the main room

Gosh, over 10 times the price of https://www.argos.co.uk/product/9190629.
And no better.

 

[Diver Fred]

I was about to say that Blue Loo was being harsh and judgemental but SUNRAY said it for me!! Thank you. In fact, thanks to everyone who posted. They say that true wisdom lies with those who ask questions so I have just popped back with an update. I eventually secured access to the property for survey and a sensible discussion with the tenant and then with the Council. Based on the knowledge obtained here coupled with recommendations from other landlords I ended up with a Creda CEP200e for the main room and smaller ones for the other 2 rooms from the same range. My electrician agreed that I would install the units and remove the old ones, then he would fit a new consumer unit and make the final connections, configured to ensure that electricity is available at all times at the units with the whole flat switching to off peak when it is appropriate.

So far, so good, heading for a positive outcome I think. However, I will post again when the job is all finished along with other electrical work being done there. Blue Loo asked if I would live there with my alter ego as a landlord? Unreservedly YES! I do hate having to use contractors for the reasons others have mentioned. I used to have a bank of good trades-people who I have known and respected for many years. Problem is that most of them have retired or died.

I feel sorry for you - especially dealing with the council walla who clearly is new to the job and only understands the most expensive (energy hungry) electrical heating. Your EPC assessor would expect High Heat Retention NSH's (Dimplex Quantum or ilk) not panel heaters no matter how priced. The Panel Heater will hit your EPC - don't forget you need your property to be at a EPC rating of 'C' by 2025. Those HHR NSH's are fully controllable output (but NOT input) with the heat being output by fan assistance: the HHR NSH can also have an element in the blown air flow path to maintain a source of heat if the NSH 'block' has been cooled below room temperature. A HHR NHS requires 2 power supplies - one on Night rate electricity to 'charge' up the block and a second on permanent power for the control electronics and fan.

If your tenant is going to the council before you have had chance to investigate the problem it's time for the S21 notice and them to go.

 

[SUNRAY]

I was about to say that Blue Loo was being harsh and judgemental but SUNRAY said it for me!! Thank you. In fact, thanks to everyone who posted. They say that true wisdom lies with those who ask questions so I have just popped back with an update. I eventually secured access to the property for survey and a sensible discussion with the tenant and then with the Council. Based on the knowledge obtained here coupled with recommendations from other landlords I ended up with a Creda CEP200e for the main room and smaller ones for the other 2 rooms from the same range. My electrician agreed that I would install the units and remove the old ones, then he would fit a new consumer unit and make the final connections, configured to ensure that electricity is available at all times at the units with the whole flat switching to off peak when it is appropriate.

So far, so good, heading for a positive outcome I think. However, I will post again when the job is all finished along with other electrical work being done there. Blue Loo asked if I would live there with my alter ego as a landlord? Unreservedly YES! I do hate having to use contractors for the reasons others have mentioned. I used to have a bank of good trades-people who I have known and respected for many years. Problem is that most of them have retired or died.

Did you speak with your EPC inspector?

 

[Foss13]

There are some strange answers here….I’ve lived in two houses with storage heaters downstairs and panel heaters upstairs.

I left the last one nearly 20 years ago and I had lived there for ten years. It’s a perfectly adequate method of heating, and in some places is likely to be the only realistic option. If set up correctly, the storage heaters give out most of their heat in the evening, despite charging at off peak (or economy 7 or 10 depending on the set up). The panel heaters are rarely required due to heat rising from below, but have both timers and thermostats anyway (or did in the last century - so I can’t imagine this has changed).

The reason electrical heating currently gives rise to poor EPCs is that it is (sometimes questionably) judged to be more expensive than gas, oil, coal or wood, but logic would suggest that this is likely to change. As more and more electricity comes from renewable sources, electric heating (even if less efficient in some forms in absolute terms) will need to be prioritised over direct use of fossil fuels.

 

[SUNRAY]

I have a rental property with NSHeating and recently been through replacement, my tenant reckons the new HHR is amazing.

A previous tenant kept complaining the old heaters were useless, it took ages to work understand the problem... he worked nights.

 

[52classic]

Thanks for your continued interest in this. wgt - We're of the same mind S21 already served although here in Wales, the Assembly Govt requires we give 6 MONTHS NOTICE under their COVID rules. Don't expect I'll be getting any more rent but any work that I can get done in advance of the place being empty is a bonus.
Sunray - Yes, I spoke to our EPC man before laying my money down. He says that the legislation on this is a long way from becoming law - 5 years or more. at the price of the Creda units I can justify replacing them again by that time compared to the cost of HHR.
Winston - Fair point but we felt that the Creda ones are a good compromise and above all, the council inspector likes the controlability of them.

No doubt in my mind that the original system, refurbished properly, would do a more efficient job than the new ones but the council won't budge on the question of controls.