Quick earth question....

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Whats the best size cable to use for earth bonding?

It will be used, for kitchen and bathroom areas.

Im sure ill have a few more questions to follow this one up with, but going shoping today and thaught id buy a reel to get started with....


Cheers guys.
 
4mm stranded, green-and-yellow sheathed. Buy some pipe clamps while you're out. It may be useful to buy an earthing block too, cheap enough, and may save you trying to cram a lot of wires into one terminal.

When you come back, look for the posts on "supplementary bonding." You do not have to bond in a kitchen, except for the boiler pipes.
 
Bonding what?

If it is supplementary, then 4mm2. If it is MEB's, then 10mm2 or 16mm2

But these are not the best sizes, they are the ones demanded by the regulations.

As John says, there is no supplementary bonding to be done in the kitchen, unless you have a boiler there.

You need to gen up on latest regulations to be sure you are doing the right thing.
 
Hi, sorry didnt get time in the end to pick anything up today, so will be doing so tommrw.

Would be nice to clarify something tho...


Couldnt find any posts on "supplementary bonding" Maybe i didnt look hard enough, but i did go through several pages of posts.... anyone any links to the correct page? or pages?

I will get an earth block on my travels too...
I take it this can be looped to the existing earth at the CU end of things, then all earthing runing from there?

Currently all I have is One earth wire from the CU to the Water pipe entry to the house.... and thats all I can find....
Obviosly there should be more, and there will be more. But im trying to future proof things here as im currntly workin on the bathroom and all cables come up from below the bathroom. (No way im going to remove the tiled floor once its down)

Ill run a cable from the Earth block to the bathroom and then earth from there i guess...

Im also considering running a couple of secondary cables into the floor space of the room next to the bathroom, as for the readyness to do a kitchen replacment shortly.... So im going to run 2x2.5 (Mains) and 1.5 (lights) for the kitchen. Should i Also run a spare earth too?

Shal I use 4mm2 for all these earths? If so ill go out and buy me big reel of the stuff..... along with clamps.

Forgive me for my lack of knowledge in this area, i just want to learn as I go...
 
MasterAbacus said:
I take it this can be looped to the existing earth at the CU end of things, then all earthing runing from there?...

No, Supplementary Bonding doesn't work like that.

Also known as equipotential Bonding.

Not trying to be funny, but if you're out tomorrow, pop into the library or bookshop, and yourself a book on home electrics. Must be a version published or revised in 2005 or 2006 (the rules changed). There is a very good one by "Which" and there is also one by Readers Digest.

If you're in the library, order a copy of "the On-Site Guide" but make sure it is a recent one

Main earthing, and Supplementary Bonding, are both things the DIY householder is allowed to upgrade without needing Building Regulations inspection, but if you are not familiar with the concepts, it will be very hard to be sure you pick them up from questions on here. Read it up first, then by all means come back to check your understanding.

Here's something I found on an earlier post:

JohnD said:
 
Firstly supplemental bonding does not go back to the consumer unit or main earth, it is within the bathroom connecting the earths of all circuits that enter the room and the metal pipework (that's hot, cold, heating, any metal wastes and the bath if it's metal) together.

Secondly form the rest of your last message it sounds like you need to get someone in, would you mess with gas?? probably not, however you can smell gas...you cannot smell, hear or even see electricity which at it's first chance will have a good go at killing you.

So give yourself a chance and leave it to those that know!!
 
nozspark said:
So give yourself a chance and leave it to those that know!!

Im all for leaving things to those in the know.... but its also good to learn new things. Theres no way ill try anything im uncertain of before asking someone, or several people first.


Big THANKS to JohnD for yet some more useful info... keep up the good work....Ill have a read of the PDF`s and also see what i can get get my hands on book wise tommrw.
 
I have books, and have been reading..... all interesting stuff....

Heres what i plan on doing in the bathroom....(Hope ive understood this right) PLEASE tell me if im wrong....

Currently, the only earth i found in the house runs from Earth CU to the Incoming water pipe to the house.... even tho it enters as plastic....

Im going to do Suppli bonding in the bathroom as follow.

Using 4mm2 cable...add an extra (Suppli) earth link from...

Shower earth terminal, to hot bath pipe tap.

Link hot bath to cold bath pipe.

Link cold bath to metal bath...(Not sure how yet as bath to be delivered.)

Link hot and cold water pipes on sink.

Link cold feed to toilet to radiator feed pipe.

Once all this is done, all i have left is the extractor, the shower switch, the light switch, and the lights. (The lights are spots that have no earth). Any pointers as to what part of the suppli bond these should be attached???

The hot water starage tank is in the airing cupboard in the bathroom... should anything need to go in there.... the switch for the immersion is in there also...

Thanks for looking, feel free to advise, or shoot me down if you need to....
 
Hi,

What's the principles behind no longer requiring earth bonding in the kitchen? Does it mean that the bonding we have between the h&c pipes is a) irrelevant, b) a good thing, or c) a bad thing? It was installed in 1997 by the Elec board when we had a new cu. We're one of the rural PME installations by the way, which is probably a.

Rgds.
 
MasterAbacus: You have to link the electrical circuits, not each fitting. So probably the fan is on the lights circuit, so you only need to join it once.

The shower switch and the shower are on the same circuit so you only need to join it once.

You can usually bond to several of the pipes in the airing cupboard, as they often pass through there, and it is out of sight so looks tidier. You will then not have to bond that same pipe again in the rest of the bathroom. You can probably feed the earth wire through the ceiling of the airing cupboard to get to the lighting circuit and shower switch.

There is probably a circuit for the immersion heater and the central heating pump and the cylinder stat and any other circuits you an find, and also bond to the other various pipes you find in the airing cupboard. the earth block will probably be handy in there. Clip the wires to the wall so they are not likely to be snagged.
 
Thanks JohnD...

The Airing cupboard pipework is a real mess, goes everywhere, so would rather earth things at other loactions.

Heres whats in my bathroom, anychance you could advise what you would link together etc...

Mains Shower (over bath) on 10mm2 cable
Shower pull switch

Extractor fan (comes on with shower switch)

steel bath with 2 taps

sink with 2 taps

toilet

rad / towel heater (Waterheated only)

3 x spot lights, no earth

light pull switch has earth to it.

all the other switches / dials etc are located in the airing cupboard.


One last thing, im still thinking maybe i should run a spare earth ready for the kitchen upgrade...I was thinking of running a 4mm2 for maybe future proofing???? im thinking this as i dont want to have to pull up the floor boards again.... or the bathroom tiles floor..... her in doors would certainly go off on one if i did that....


Many thanks again for your time on this.....
 
I think I would go for:

Shower pull switch (so you can run the wire in the ceiling)

steel bath (will probably have an earthing tag on it, if not, it will probably have steel studs or brackets welded on for the legs, so you can put the wire under a locknut (not one that might later be loosened to change the bath height)

The hot and cold water pipes (I presume the basin and the bath come off the same pipes)

toilet - no - unless you have an iron or lead soil pipe, the only metal pipe will be the cold feed, no need to bond it separately if it comes off the same pipe as the cold taps

rad / towel heater (Waterheated only) - yes, the CH pipes that feed it, assuming they are copper.

light pull switch - yes, you can run the wire in the ceiling and join to the shower switch so you only have one wire to bring down into the room

all the other circuits and pipes you find in the airing cupboard since this is within the bathroom and you do not need a tool to gain access. Modern cylinders do not have earth tags so you just bond all the pipes going in, out and past it.

If you like to bond to the pipes under the basin as well as under the bath, it will do no harm but is not required, providing the pipes are copper and permanently joined. I suppose it would be a precaution against someone later making a repair or alteration in plastic pipe.

You are not required to earth the kitchen sink and its taps any more, BUT if you have a boiler in there, it and all its pipes need to be bonded to its supply (not via a plug). This is not an electrical regulation but a Corgi or Boiler makers rule (I don't know which).

You are not required to run supplementary bonding back to the consumer unit, only to the electrical circuits within the bathroom.
 
Im sure ill get there in the end.....

The Oil fired boiler is in the Kitchen, so gues it will need bonding later.... Ill run a 4mm2 just to be on the safe side....

Bathroom sounds better then....

Start at the Earth of the Shower switch, out to a Block. ?

If i bond the hot and cold together, then the bath to them? Then one wire back to the block? or is just bonded together ok?

Sink just bond together?

Radiator both sides or one? link back to block?

What about extractor fan?

Still a little confused i think, but making progress all the time....
 

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