Rascist Labour cabinet MP sacked

[Scarlet Pimpernel]

includes “criticism of Israel similar to that levelled against any other country cannot be regarded as anti-Semitic”

I know. I didn't include it in my later comment, but it was included in an earlier comment of mine.
"However, criticism of Israel similar to that leveled against any other country cannot be regarded as antisemitic."

Read more: https://www.diynot.com/diy/threads/rascist-labour-cabinet-mp-sacked.547822/page-4#ixzz6QVhiXImh

I believe I also mentioned that, in the case of RL-B, because it was not true, that her actions could be considered as antisemitic.
If it were true, perhaps her actions would not have been considered antisemitic.

 

[Scarlet Pimpernel]

You might criticise a country if it did something you disapproved of.

For example if Belgium and Israel both banned immigrants or redheads from driving, you could reasonably criticise them both.

If only one of them did it, you could reasonably criticise that one.

Precisely. You can criticise Israel for its policy towards Palestinians. That is not antisemitic.
You cannot display hostility towards Jews, or those that practise Judaism, because they may disagree with the Israeli government on that issue.

Similarly, you can criticise Saudi Arabia for its capital punishment. But you cannot display hostility towards Arabs, because they may not be Saudi, or they may disagree with the policy, etc.

If some British people display prejudice towards, say Irish, is it racism?

In 2002, English journalist Julie Burchill narrowly escaped prosecution for incitement to racial hatred, following a column in The Guardian where she described Ireland as being synonymous with "child molestation, Nazi-sympathising, and the oppression of women."[37] Burchill had expressed anti-Irish sentiment several times throughout her career, announcing in the London journal Time Out that "I hate the Irish, I think they're appalling"
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Anti-Irish_sentiment

n December 2014 British broadcaster Channel 4 caused an "outrage" and "fury" in Ireland and the UK when it planned a comedy series about the Irish Famine.
Protesters from the Irish community planned to picket the offices of Channel 4 and campaigners called the proposed show 'institutionalised anti-Irish racism'.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Anti-Irish_sentiment
​

As far as I am aware, the Irish and the British are of the same race. (just an addition to the discussion with EFLImpudence. perhaps not relevant to the comment quoted in this response.)

 

[fillyboy]

Wicked - Wicked literally means evil. In slang it means perfect or excellent

Hehe, EFL is sick.

Sick - Slang words often mean the opposite of their conventional meaning. In this case, something "sick" is actually cool or good.

 

[sodthisforfun]

Hehe, EFL is sick.

Sick - Slang words often mean the opposite of their conventional meaning. In this case, something "sick" is actually cool or good.

You're so down with the kids man!

 

[Scarlet Pimpernel]

Hehe, EFL is sick.

Sick - Slang words often mean the opposite of their conventional meaning. In this case, something "sick" is actually cool or good.

Or how about 'chauvinist'? Now assumed to refer to, as the dictionary definition:

Definition of chauvinism
1: an attitude of superiority toward members of the opposite sex
https://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/chauvinism​

But that wasn't its original usage.

Dictionaries can lag behind societal developments, and the idea that a “word” indisputably “means” what dictionaries say is simply sloppy.
https://www.theatlantic.com/ideas/archive/2020/06/dictionary-definition-racism-has-change/613324/

I’m not aware of successful attempts to revive antique words for colloquial usage
https://www.theatlantic.com/ideas/archive/2020/06/dictionary-definition-racism-has-change/613324/​

Clearly EFLImpudence is determined to try.

“Activism doesn’t change the dictionary,” he told the New York Times, adding: “Activism changes the language.”
https://www.theguardian.com/books/2...ster-racism-definition-revise-kennedy-mitchum
​

Dictionaries, eh?

There is also a contrast between prescriptive or descriptive dictionaries; the former reflect what is seen as correct use of the language while the latter reflect recorded actual use.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dictionary
​

I would suggest that EFLImpudence is relying on his prescriptive view of dictionaries, as his basis of his argument, but dictionaries also reflect the descriptive view of language, i.e. what words are in use, and their colloquial meaning, which obviously change over time.


weldón oncweþan
Here's a site you might find useful
https://www.oldenglishtranslator.co.uk/

 

[fillyboy]

These sort of post should be banned from a DIY forum. Started by a Boris pin up (doesnt get much weirder than that)

Hangings too good for 'im.

 

[Vinty]

Hard to feel sorry for Ms Bailey, she is a victim of policies which she and the hard left have been promoting for years.
I suspect by promoting multi culturalism and the suppression of free speech through so called Political correctness, she never realised that some day the same rules could be applied to her.

 

[Scarlet Pimpernel]

Hard to feel sorry for Ms Bailey, she is a victim of policies which she and the hard left have been promoting for years.
I suspect by promoting multi culturalism and the suppression of free speech through so called Political correctness, she never realised that some day the same rules could be applied to her.

You have a problem with multiculturalism?

As this history shows, multiculturalism in Western countries was seen to combat racism, to protect minority communities of all types, and to undo policies that had prevented minorities from having full access to the opportunities for freedom and equality
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Multi...itical science,and policies which vary widely.
​

In what way has Labour suppressed free speech?

You have a problem with political correctness?

Political correctness is a term used to describe language, policies, or measures that are intended to avoid offense or disadvantage to members of particular groups in society.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Political_correctness​

 

[Vinty]

The original use of the word (late 19 century) did not relate simply to Jews. Although it was a subject of discussion between certain people, mainly in France and Germany. Arguments about its use have continued and do continue.
But modern day usage is generally considered to be 'against Jews and/or against Judaism and racist.
Indeed, Arabs can exhibit anti-Semitic behaviour, if you adopt the modern day usage of anti-semitism.
As anti-Semitism can be about prejudice towards those who practice Judaism, racism does not have to be about 'race'. It can apply to religion or culture also.

​

If the predjudice is about the practice of Judiasm then the term for that should anti Jewish and not anti semitic.
There are 300 million Semites in the world the vast majority of whom are not Jewish.
Not all semites are jewish and not all jews are semitic.

 

[ajohn]

I have no alternative but to conclude that you are either a very silly person or have a vested interest in maintaining the duplicitous method of silencing any criticism of Jews or Israel by falsely branding it as racist.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Semitic

https://www.tikkun.org/who-gets-to-define-anti-semitism

Some lead for your pencil as your argument is basically correct but word meanings can change over time. If this one should in some ways is questionable.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Semitic_people

 

[ellal]

What criticism levelled against another country is similar to Israel?

You may have a point there...

Almost half of all UN resolutions for Human rights violations in the world have been made against Israel.

So what you should be asking is why, and then the reason becomes very clear!

 

[Scarlet Pimpernel]

Clearly, if EFLImpudence's opinion was dominant, we'd all be speaking like this:

The Lord's Prayer (Our Father)
Fæder ure
ðu ðe eart on heofenum
si ðin nama gehalgod
to-becume ðin rice
geweorþe ðin willa on eorðan swa swa on heofenum.
Urne ge dæghwamlican hlaf syle us to-deag
and forgyf us ure gyltas
swa swa we forgifaþ urum gyltendum
ane ne gelæde ðu us on costnunge
ac alys us of yfle.
​

Thankfully, language evolves and has evolved.

 

[Scarlet Pimpernel]

If the predjudice is about the practice of Judiasm then the term for that should anti Jewish and not anti semitic.

A simple assertion. Care to elaborate?
On what do you base your assertion?
And how ill you go about changing the colloquial use of antisemitism?

 

[Vinty]

You have a problem with multiculturalism?

As this history shows, multiculturalism in Western countries was seen to combat racism, to protect minority communities of all types, and to undo policies that had prevented minorities from having full access to the opportunities for freedom and equality
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Multiculturalism#:~:text=In reference to political science,and policies which vary widely.
​

In what way has Labour suppressed free speech?

You have a problem with political correctness?

Political correctness is a term used to describe language, policies, or measures that are intended to avoid offense or disadvantage to members of particular groups in society.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Political_correctness​

No problem with everyone being treated fairly but what we are seeing today is a classic example of the road to hell be paved with good (and not so good) intentions.

The so called IHRA definition of so called anti semitism is nothing more than a device to suppress free speech.

The irony is that the right wingers will be rubbing their hands in glee with the political demise of Long Bailey, yet when the same device is used against them to brand their legitimate grievances as racist, they complain.

 

[Scarlet Pimpernel]

No problem with everyone being treated fairly

You think everyone is treated equally?