Dear all, I apologize for submitting my former post, complete with the secret general operating information for ALL residential boiler systems. I am truly sorry for any implications that I may be an accredited member of any formal HVAC association, I thought I said I was in electronics. Tony (‘Agile’), thank you for your interest in my Amana HTM Plus system (installed 1982), which works nearly the same as the Ravenheat LS80 (mickymoody’s system), the Viessmann VB2-18 (my mother’s system), the IBC Technologies VFC15-150 (my friend’s system) and the NY Thermal Inc. Ti150 (a system I’m looking at for my new Canadian Rockies dream home). All the aforementioned systems have online manuals (pdf format) except for my poor old Amana HTM Plus, one of the very first of the modern natural gas high efficiency residential boiler systems, and from which experience I penned my original post. It is truly an amazing coincidence that all residential boiler systems work nearly like my 30 year old Amana HTM Plus, and that all those manufacturers have copied Amana’s original documentation in slightly reworded form… From 30 years ago and still works the same? That is quite a coincidence!!!
Anyway, all modern residential boiler systems (I humbly also include my 30 year old Amana HTM Plus) are characterized by their broad similarity of general operational characteristics, and more recently by their increasing commonality of major parts (circulation pumps, combustion chambers, igniters, heat exchangers, solid state controllers, etc.). The interested observer will also note the ever increasing tintinnabulations on the part of some heating ventilation and air conditioning (HVAC) contractors emphasizing that only their ‘highly trained, certified, etc. etc.’ personnel are skilled enough to deal with these complex modern residential heating systems.
My own personal experience as an owner and trouble-shooter (non-accredited) of residential boiler systems for friends/acquaintances has been that erroneous ‘professional’ advice (i.e. ‘You don’t need to change the glycol every 4 or 5 years’ or ‘You don’t need a negative pressure gas valve’ or ‘You don’t need a drain/fill valve there’) has likely led to the premature repair or replacement of nearly 90% of the HTM Plus systems in my area within their first 20 years of operation, and there are only about 20 of them left in service (out of approximately 4,000 in 1985). Many of these ‘pros’ who have or had at best a sketchy understanding of galvanic corrosion tables, electronic controls, static electricity safeguards, proper low lead copper pipe soldering methods, and a litany of other modern skills required to work on these 21st century systems are convinced that their old ‘pipe bashing’ skills, some good old ‘techno-jargon’ and some certification system run by themselves will be enough to hoodwink the modern consumer into believing that ‘the pros’ know what they are doing. I acquired in over 30 years of working and teaching in electronics communications and control systems, skills that usually allow me to ascertain where to generally hunt for solutions, and the communications abilities to convey those ideas to others in language that they can understand and act on.
I did not and do not question the qualifications and expertise of anyone in this forum, my general operation comments were based on practical experience and common knowledge of how all residential boiler systems work. The extras are the thermistors, PIN diodes (used as switches) microcontrollers, and programming, etc. used in the most modern systems, but the basics are all the same. It is usually not necessary to have all the test equipment and resources to deal with microcontrollers and other sophisticated electronic devices, you’ll generally find that the electronics are the most reliable part of the modern residential HVAC system. This statement of course assumes that electronics are installed and programmed per manufacturer’s specifications and instructions.
I will respectfully bow out now to the vastly more experienced and knowledgeable forum member who is obviously capable of determining that a defective A/D converter connected to the high-sense limit thermistor was the real culprit in causing mickymoody’s unfortunate lack of hot water… or is it?
Please continue to give him (mickymoody) the kind of advice that will persuade him to purchase a new and improved system (or maybe many more expensive parts)…(good alliteration!), and a really big thank-you again for all your help and kind advice, especially distilling the basics of the system operation to him. I’m sure you are a great team player, especially on your very own team…
P.S. For all readers, to verify that generally all this residential boiler stuff works the same, have a look at
http://www.nythermal.com/uploads/file/Manuals/Trinity Ti Series Installation Manual 2010-1-5.pdf
Anyway, all modern residential boiler systems (I humbly also include my 30 year old Amana HTM Plus) are characterized by their broad similarity of general operational characteristics, and more recently by their increasing commonality of major parts (circulation pumps, combustion chambers, igniters, heat exchangers, solid state controllers, etc.). The interested observer will also note the ever increasing tintinnabulations on the part of some heating ventilation and air conditioning (HVAC) contractors emphasizing that only their ‘highly trained, certified, etc. etc.’ personnel are skilled enough to deal with these complex modern residential heating systems.
My own personal experience as an owner and trouble-shooter (non-accredited) of residential boiler systems for friends/acquaintances has been that erroneous ‘professional’ advice (i.e. ‘You don’t need to change the glycol every 4 or 5 years’ or ‘You don’t need a negative pressure gas valve’ or ‘You don’t need a drain/fill valve there’) has likely led to the premature repair or replacement of nearly 90% of the HTM Plus systems in my area within their first 20 years of operation, and there are only about 20 of them left in service (out of approximately 4,000 in 1985). Many of these ‘pros’ who have or had at best a sketchy understanding of galvanic corrosion tables, electronic controls, static electricity safeguards, proper low lead copper pipe soldering methods, and a litany of other modern skills required to work on these 21st century systems are convinced that their old ‘pipe bashing’ skills, some good old ‘techno-jargon’ and some certification system run by themselves will be enough to hoodwink the modern consumer into believing that ‘the pros’ know what they are doing. I acquired in over 30 years of working and teaching in electronics communications and control systems, skills that usually allow me to ascertain where to generally hunt for solutions, and the communications abilities to convey those ideas to others in language that they can understand and act on.
I did not and do not question the qualifications and expertise of anyone in this forum, my general operation comments were based on practical experience and common knowledge of how all residential boiler systems work. The extras are the thermistors, PIN diodes (used as switches) microcontrollers, and programming, etc. used in the most modern systems, but the basics are all the same. It is usually not necessary to have all the test equipment and resources to deal with microcontrollers and other sophisticated electronic devices, you’ll generally find that the electronics are the most reliable part of the modern residential HVAC system. This statement of course assumes that electronics are installed and programmed per manufacturer’s specifications and instructions.
I will respectfully bow out now to the vastly more experienced and knowledgeable forum member who is obviously capable of determining that a defective A/D converter connected to the high-sense limit thermistor was the real culprit in causing mickymoody’s unfortunate lack of hot water… or is it?
Please continue to give him (mickymoody) the kind of advice that will persuade him to purchase a new and improved system (or maybe many more expensive parts)…(good alliteration!), and a really big thank-you again for all your help and kind advice, especially distilling the basics of the system operation to him. I’m sure you are a great team player, especially on your very own team…
P.S. For all readers, to verify that generally all this residential boiler stuff works the same, have a look at
http://www.nythermal.com/uploads/file/Manuals/Trinity Ti Series Installation Manual 2010-1-5.pdf
.
