RCD Randomly Tripping

[scousespark]

Who said anything about "attacks"? I merely expressed surprise that you had chosen ('singled out') Andrew to be told what he undoubtedly already knew, when you could have chosen any number of other people whose need for reading (or inclination to read) before they did anything was almost certainly greater than Andrew's.

Kind Regards, John

You said you had decided to 'defend' Andrew, so that would lead most of us to think he was under attack from me. I have been through the thread, as I thought I must have missed something. After reading the posts listed below, I offfered advice to read up before using the testers.

I looked at my original post and there is nothing in there criticising Andrew. I merely advised him to read up on testing before he uses his new kit and I also recommended a book. Andrew may be able to decide for himself whether my advice is helpful or not.

This is a new one, as you are not challenging my advice, just the fact that I chose to post it to somebody who YOU believe doesn't need it.
I was not aware of a forum rule whichs states that we ( actually I think it's just me) have to check with you before we post.

FYI, if somebody has a similar problem some time down the line, they may not have Andrew's apparent background knowledge.

Moving forward, Is there a way for me to find the fault without tracing the wiring from cu all the way through the circuit? I am only armed with a multi-meter which is a pretty good one but I dont have proper electricians tools yet (still training)
Andrew

Thanks EFLImpudence. I have managed to find a Fluke Made robin 1620 Multi-Function Tester Plus 3010 & 4116 Testers all for £150 which does all the tests you said. It should be with me Saturday so I will have a new toy to play with

I am expecting my new toy to arrive on Saturday and am excited to learn how to use it and then will test everything.

 

[deadshort]

I was not aware of a forum rule whichs states that we ( actually I think it's just me) have to check with you before we post.

Well said that man !

DS

 

[AndrewCollis]

Hi Everyone

Sorry I haven't written on here, I was called away in a hurry and left my laptop behind. This is my first day back.

I am also sorry I have caused some cross words between people on here, that was never my intention and I really do appreciate all the help everyone is giving.

Where I got to before was I narrowed down the fault to the bathroom. So I took the light down, the extractor down and disconnected one of the cables from the ring. When there were no faults, I started putting them back one by one making sure there were no faults between until I was left with the cable from the landing rose to the bathroom rose as the only thing disconnected. I replaced the wire and have had no faults.

Today, I received my testing equipment but as I need to learn how to use it, I thought I would get on with my work through the day and save the learning for night time when I can not make too much noise.

With that in mind, I started getting the ceiling ready for plastering in the bathroom. I wanted to change the fancy light for a normal rose while I'm plastering so I pulled the wire through the ceiling a bit more so I have good access and found this below

I suddenly realised, when I was having the problems, the light was fixed in the ceiling and when I took the screws out and lowered the light, the problems stopped. When I put the light back up, I didn't fix the light to the ceiling as I was going to take it down again to plaster. I changed the cable which was left but I am guessing there was nothing wrong with it but this cable going to the light had a screw wound through it and was causing the problem.

I have replaced this cable now and put everything back together and so far everything is fine.

To answer some of the comments/questions, I started training with Access Training however, I wasn't completely satisfied with the fullness of the training. From what I found, the training was to give enough information to pass exams but left a lot out of what needed to be learned to give a complete understanding. So, instead of an intense course to have me qualified but no use in 3 months, I thought it would be better to take each module one at a time and after the initial learning, come away and learn the rest before starting the next. I am sure the fast track is great for an apprentice but as I don't have an electrician to work for and teach me the rest, its not much good to me.

My library so far includes, Wiring and Lighting by Chris Kitcher, 3 Way and 4 Way Switch lighting by Cornel Barbu, 17th Edition IET Wiring Regulations, Wiring Systems and Fault Finding for Installation Electricians by Brian Scaddan, Practical Guide to Inspection, Testing and Certification of Electrical Installations by Chris Kitcher, How to Test Circuits Like a Pro (Part 1 &2) by Vincent Keler and How to use all the functions on your Multimeter by Vincent Keler. This is a growing library so if there are any other books anyone feels will be useful to me, please let me know.

Anyway, once again guys, thanks for all your help

All the best
Andrew

 

[JohnW2]

I was not aware of a forum rule whichs states that we ( actually I think it's just me) have to check with you before we post.

Well said that man!

It's obviously not surprising that scousespark was not aware of such a forum rule. I also imagine that he is unaware of any forum rule which requires one to get permission (from anyone) before post comments or disagreements with what a member has posted.

Scousespark focussed on the last three words of one sentence which Andrew posted, but I'm not convinced that he looked carefully enough at the words which preceded those ....

I am expecting my new toy to arrive on Saturday and am excited to learn how to use it and then will test everything.

Kind Regards, John

 

[JohnW2]

When I put the light back up, I didn't fix the light to the ceiling as I was going to take it down again to plaster. I changed the cable which was left but I am guessing there was nothing wrong with it but this cable going to the light had a screw wound through it and was causing the problem.

That could well explain it! Have you any idea when that wound will have been inflicted?

Thanks for the explanation about your training. Your library sounds like a very good start. "3 Way and 4 Way Switch..." sounds horribly American (and some American electrical practices leave a lot to be desired, by our standards) - is it?

Kind Regards, John

 

[AndrewCollis]

Hi John

When I bought the house, most of the wiring had been run (badly) and the CU had been put on the wall (badly) and half wired (also badly) but only 2 circuits were working. I traced each wire, took them out of the surface mounted trunking and channelled the walls and buried them with oval trunking. I moved the wires from being laid in cut outs in the top of the joists and re-routed them through the centre of the joists finishing the missing/half complete circuits as I went. Once finished, I wired the CU properly, put new earth throughout, bonded everything required and put the new sockets, switches and light fittings up. Once all was done, I switched on and the problem was almost immediate. That was a few days before I first posted.

The switching book is Canadian I think, I'm not really sure why I bought it to be honest, I think it looked complicated and I was getting carried away with buying books, only when I started to read it realised it wouldn't be relevant to me and stopped reading.

All the best
Andrew

 

[JohnW2]

Once finished, I wired the CU properly, put new earth throughout, bonded everything required and put the new sockets, switches and light fittings up. Once all was done, I switched on and the problem was almost immediate. That was a few days before I first posted.

Fair enough. Do I take it that that means that the wound was inflicted when you "put the light fittings up"? (don't feel bad - I doubt there's anyone here who has never done it, or something similar!)

The switching book is Canadian I think, I'm not really sure why I bought it to be honest, I think it looked complicated and I was getting carried away with buying books, only when I started to read it realised it wouldn't be relevant to me and stopped reading.

Again, fair enough. What we call "2-way switching" (with or without intermediate switches, which some then call "3-way) is really pretty straightforward once you study the diagrams of how it is done. The only thing to watch is that, at least in the UK, there is the 'old-fashioned' and 'new' way of arranging "2-way switching" wiring. The former is probably a little easier to understand, but the latter offers a number of benefits.

Kind Regards, John

 

[AndrewCollis]

Oh dear John.... I guess I have done it the old way as the diagram I used was in old colours!

I used this diagram (twice)

Will this cause me a problem?

All the best
Andrew

 

[Iggifer]

No that's standard 2-way switching. Nothing wrong with following that diagram.

 

[JohnW2]

Oh dear John.... I guess I have done it the old way as the diagram I used was in old colours! I used this diagram (twice) .... will this cause me a problem?

No problem - that is the 'new' way

Kind Regards, John

 

[JohnW2]

Oh dear John.... I guess I have done it the old way as the diagram I used was in old colours!

Further to what I just wrote, for your education, the 'old method' was like this:

Kind Regards, John

 

[AndrewCollis]

Phew, I thought because of the old colours in the diagram I used I was going to have to change it all. Thanks for the picture of the old way John, it looks like it would be a bit of a nightmare to wire with only one going through the switch.

Still no trips so I have now smoked a cigar (its a milestone thing)

Thanks again

All the best
Andrew

 

[JohnW2]

Phew, I thought because of the old colours in the diagram I used I was going to have to change it all.

Even if you had been right, there would have been no need to change it - there must be millions of instances of 'old method' 2-way switch wiring out there. In reality, I think that the move to the 'modern'way of doing it happened long before the colours changed.

Still no trips so I have now smoked a cigar (its a milestone thing)

That sounds promising!

Kind Regards, John

 

[scousespark]

It's obviously not surprising that scousespark was not aware of such a forum rule. I also imagine that he is unaware of any forum rule which requires one to get permission (from anyone) before post comments or disagreements with what a member has posted.

Scousespark focussed on the last three words of one sentence which Andrew posted, but I'm not convinced that he looked carefully enough at the words which preceded those ....

Kind Regards, John

For some reason, you always look for something to pick at whenever I post.

I posted because, in my opinion, Andrew hadn't said he had knowledge of testing. He had demonstrated that he understood circuitry.
I read that Andrew was going to learn HOW to use the tester before he tested everything. That was after thanking EFLI for pointing him at an IR tester and telling him which test he should run.

That was why I posted.

I have NEVER seen a thread where a poster is asked to justify the reason for posting (because you think it unnecessary) and this is the ONE time I'll do so. You do not own this forum and I have no obligation to explain myself to you.

 

[AndrewCollis]

Hi Scousespark

This was the first time I had posted on this site. I did so because I was in need of experienced guidance. Some of the reply's I had to my post were very helpful and steered me in the right direction to cure a problem in a astute and timely manner.

John has given a lot of input, more than anyone else has. He gave ideas of things to try and steered me when I was going to go in the wrong direction. The input you gave was to tell me to learn about the testing equipment before I use it directly after I had clearly said I was excited to learn how to use my new toy and then will test everything. I would say your first input was a unnecessary, wrong and pointless. Maybe you didn't read my post carefully enough or maybe you just felt the need to be condescending towards me as I had I been very open in my knowledge is limited and you wanted to show yours is so vast. Either way, I did not appreciate your comment but chose to ignore it for the sake of this thread.

John tried to point out that your post was an insult to me and directed you to the reason for it. All everyone has been able to do since is read a thread which has been compromised by an argument.

So thankyou Scousespark, you have made my first time on this site a memorable one. I am so very glad my issues are now fixed.

Once again. Thankyou very much to JohnW2, EFLI and Iggifer, your input was very much appreciated. If I need to post another question on here, Scousespark please don't feel the need to join the thread.

All the best
Andrew