Really cold wall - southwest facing semi detached house

[astenhouse]

Hi, my family and I live in a nice semi detached house built approx 1935, we moved in Oct last year just in time for the bad winter. We have found the hall/stairway wall to be really really cold to the touch most of the time, putting the heating on helps a little but it takes a long time to have a effect.

Worse still the wall is also against my son's room and it is real chilly in the mornings. I am worried about his overall health as a result.

The wall has been cavity filled but I do not think it has helped, this was done a while ago by the previous owners. There are air bricks in the top corner of this wall as well as the botom, there is also a covered vent in his room.

Could the temperature be caused by the air bricks? There is also a double glazed window in this wall, this feels to be leaking cold air in noticable with the heating on and walking past with no tshhirt on (first thing in the morning).

I would really like to know how to cure whatever is causing this wall to be so cold, it's costing me a fortune in gas too.

Is there something that I can do or a professional someone I can employ to help?

Thanks.

 

[mointainwalker]

"

Worse still the wall is also against my son's room and it is real chilly in the mornings. I am worried about his overall health as a result. "

So ? He's going to be warm in bed isn't he ?

Do you really think a few minutes of being cold (cooler) whilst not being fully dressed is going to be harmful ?

Do you feel you are maybe being a bit pathetic ?

 

[poddys]

Our house was built in the 1950's and we have the same problem with the southwest side. It's also a semi. The kitchen and bathroom downstairs and bedroom upstairs are always cold, even in summer. It's almost like they are haunted, if that makes sense.

They also have air vents high up in each room. Even though we covered the inside vents with cling film, the walls are freezing.

I hope you get an answer, because I think we have a similar problem.

I am looking at covering the air bricks outside with cowls, so that the wind can't directly blow in. Whether that makes a difference or not I don't know.

 

[astenhouse]

Quite a harsh response I think, I have chosen to omit his health problems.

To clarity, the wall is cold all day and night, his room is cold all day and night, he is warm under the covers but the air and room is cold. I would like to get to the root cause of the chill.

 

[astenhouse]

Hi poddys, I would be interested to know how you get on with the covers, I read the ground air bricks are to allow air into the supprted timbers to air the void underfloor, have you noticed any difference blocking he downstairs vents?

 

[wavetrain]

To clarity, the wall is cold all day and night, his room is cold all day and night, he is warm under the covers but the air and room is cold. I would like to get to the root cause of the chill.

My filing cabinet metal outer in a room at 22C feels cold to the touch, it feels this way because my hand is around 35C. wrting that a wall is cold to the touch is too vauge. To be scientific, please post here the temperatures of the cold wall day and night and also the room air temperature day and niight. To measure the wall temperature place the thermometer to touch the wall, take the reading 30 minutes are placement. For air temperatures, place thermometer in the middle of room at 1 metre above floor eg a on a table etc.

You will aslo need to the provide the outside air temperature day and night and also an estimate of the wind speed past the wall - ie 5mph, 10mph, 20mph or gale.

Post your results tomorrow, I will then provide you with a response.

 

[poddys]

Hi poddys, I would be interested to know how you get on with the covers, I read the ground air bricks are to allow air into the supprted timbers to air the void underfloor, have you noticed any difference blocking he downstairs vents?

I just started looking at covers today. These are the best I can find so far. Hopefully I can get some and fit them in the next few weeks.

As said, it's ok under the covers, but even with the radiator up high the walls are cold, just like yours.

 

[astenhouse]

Hi wavetrain, thanks for the advice I didn't think to do that. At the moment I only have a fridge thermometer which is not ideal, I will pick one up either today or tomorrow, then take the readings and advise. Please bear with me .

 

[wavetrain]

forgot to mention, you should have had the heating on in the daytime for this test and had the heating on in the house over the last few days so the wall structure is it at a typical temperature, but you would have the heating on to some extent in the daytime anyway wouldn't you?

With the data I will calculate an estimate for the U value of this wall. The cavity may not actaully be insulated you see - also what is the thickness of the wall, 9", 11" or 12"?

I will compare your readings to my heated home with 9" walls and no insulation.

 

[astenhouse]

Measuring front and back walls shows 12", the heating is on as normal. Will report back asap. Thanks.

 

[astenhouse]

I have been able to borrow a thermal laser thermometer to measure the wall(s) and using a digital thermal thermometer for the air.

I took the following readings, I wont win any science awards as I am restricted by work and family for getting measurements.

06/03/11 - 19:40
Inside Wall: 20C
Air Temp: 19C
Outside Temp: 4C
Heating off for 2 hours after being on approx 1 hour

20:20
Inside Wall: 20C
Air Temp: 19C
Outside Temp: 5C

21:40
Inside Wall: 22C
Air Temp: 22C
Outside Temp: 5C
Heating on for 1 hour prior


07/03/11 - 7:20
Inside Wall: 19C
Air Temp: 18C
Outside Temp: 3C
Heating on 2 hours after being off since 21:30 prev night
Noticed most of wall 19C however below 1m mark around bottom of the stairs it was 16C. There is an air vent near here which must be the cause of the difference.

8:00
Inside Wall: 19C
Air Temp: 19C
Outside Temp: 3C
Heating still on

17:10
Inside Wall: 19C
Air Temp: 18C
Outside Temp: 5C
Heating on for 30mins prior

17:40
Inside Wall: 19C
Air Temp: 19C
Outside Temp: 5C

18:50
Inside Wall: 20C
Air Temp: 20C
Outside Temp: 4C
Heating off at 18:00
Wall temp button 1meter area of stairs was 19C

19:40
Inside Wall: 20C
Air Temp: 22C
Outside Temp: 4C

20:15
Inside Wall: 20C
Air Temp: 20C
Outside Temp: 2C


08/03/11 - 7:20
Inside Wall: 20C
Air Temp: 19C
Outside Temp: 3C

For most of tonight I have noted the wall being ~19C and the air also ~19C. Outside has been fluctuating 1/2/3/4C. This seems to be a constant.

I am unsure what to make of these values, If 19C is the rough temp the walls always are then the room will always be ~1C diff?
Pumping more heat in helps a little however not much?

Ideally I would like to keep as much heat in as possible. I thought I may have cavity wall insulation based upon the holes drilled at regular intervals at the base of the fall ~ 1 meter up and one or two at the top of the wall ~ 1 meter from the roof. I have since found out this 'may' be damp proofing instead?

 

[wavetrain]

Thank you for your reply. You have not mentioned if you checked the calibration of the two thermometers with each other.

To do this place the air thermometer on a piece of non metallic furniture in the centre of the room. When the reading has stablised, take a reading with the infra-red thermometer from the furniture next to the air thermometer and report here the readings from the different instruments.

 

[astenhouse]

Using the wooden painted stair bannister at the bottom of the stairs:

Infrared laser: 20.2c
Infrared thermal: 19.9c

Temp around the window at the top of the stairs seem to be 1 to 2c lower in the mornings and late nights, this maybe causing the draft problems?

I can't judge with speeds down the side of the house, it is funneled though, maybe 5 to 10mph maybe.

Thanks

 

[wavetrain]

As far as I can tell from your readings, your inside wall temperatures are not far off your inside air temperatures, indeed at times they are greater than the inside air temperatures when outside is close to freezing!

I did check my side house wall and for an average outside air temperature of 7C and an inside air temperature of 19.5C in the daytime, the wall was 16C. This is beacuse I have 9" solid wall.

Conclusion: you have not provided evidence to support your claim that some walls are "really really cold", indeed you seem to have excellent insualtion and walls that are not at all cold apart from one area. I am sorry to say you come across as sort of 'home-owner hypercondriac' / TW, who will allways be finding something new wrong to report.

I suggest you pay for a survey from an independant chartered surveyer to see if he can detect any defect in your building.

 

[astenhouse]

Fair enough Thanks for the assistance and advise.