Redundant town (coal) gas supply pipe

[Symptoms]

I bought a Victorian house in N.Ireland a couple of years ago & I'm busy renovating it. In the cupboard below the staircase is a short length (12” maybe) of iron pipe emerging vertically through the floor from the void below; this pipe is capped. The pipe runs below the hallway & front door and out to under the front garden and presumably to the street. This is clearly the original town (coal) gas supply pipe which would have connected to the gas meter below the stairs … obviously the meter is long gone. Town gas stopped being produced here donkeys years ago and, unlike the rest of the UK, there was no natural gas available so most folks use oil for their heating.

There is now natural gas available over here so when I bought the house I got the new natural gas supplier Phoenix Gas to install a meter (on an outside wall) and they used a ‘mole’ to push a new supply pipe to the street where they made their connection to the gas main. Oil fired boiler swapped for a gas fired jobby.

A couple of questions:

Is my ‘old’ iron pipe likely to still be connected to the gas main in the street, and if so is it likely to be functional or was it likely that back in the day the fitters, when removing the meter and capping the pipe in the house, also would have done something at the mains end?

Is it likely that the ‘old’ gas main is being used for the distribution of natural gas or would new mains have had to be installed?

Basically, I want to get rid of the old pipe below the stairs as it’s obstructing access. I thought I ask here first before descending in the living hell that is customer services at most utility companies.

 

[doitall]

It should have been disconnected in the street after 12months, or at the very least when they did the new connection.

Only way is to give them a bell.

 

[brianthegas]

It should have been disconnected in the street after 12months, or at the very least when they did the new connection.

Only way is to give them a bell.

Yes, give em a call and ask them to "check pipe for safety" no charge for the service either. As previously stated, they would have done this when laying new pipe but better to make sure.
Brian (ex British Gas)

 

[Onetap]

Is my ‘old’ iron pipe likely to still be connected to the gas main in the street, and if so is it likely to be functional or was it likely that back in the day the fitters, when removing the meter and capping the pipe in the house, also would have done something at the mains end?

The old meter would have been connected to the service pipe (meter to street) and the internal gas distribution pipes connected to the meter. The old meter has gone, so probably the old screwed iron pipes are dead. Get someone to unscrew the cap and see, whilst being ready to screw the cap back on. If dead, unscrew and angle-grind away the bits that are in the way.

PS Just to clarify this for those who are hard of understanding. This refers to the distribution pipes (METER TO APPLIANCE). I wouldn't leave the end of the service pipe open (METER TO STREET) because you don't known what it on the other end of it. If you unscrew it, refit a cap to the pikpe nearer to the door

Is it likely that the ‘old’ gas main is being used for the distribution of natural gas or would new mains have had to be installed?

I'd have thought the old abandoned mains would probably be too leaky due to rust, subsidence, the open ends of abandoned service pipes and breaks caused by other services digging up roads, or maybe too risky if there are houses with open ended service pipes. They'd probably be full of water and mud. Maybe they were tested and relined.

Have you seen people digging big trenches and putting in yellow plastic pipes?

 

[Agile]

You cannot assume anything so it needs to be checked, best free as described above.

Gas regulations also cover dead ex-gas pipes which should still be capped at each end.

Of course if disconnected that has little effect apart from complying with the regulations.

Tony

 

[namsag]

Excellent advice from onetap NOT to unscrew a potential live service.
Only people to check this is the whoever the emergency provider is in NI.

It is not uncommon for a service to be missed and left live after a new service is put into a property

 

[Agile]

The old meter would have been connected to the service pipe (meter to street) and the internal gas distribution pipes connected to the meter. The old meter has gone, so probably the old screwed iron pipes are dead. Get someone to unscrew the cap and see, whilst being ready to screw the cap back on. If dead, unscrew and angle-grind away the bits that are in the way.

I dont see that as good advice at all !

In fact unless it was a Gas Registered person then its highly dangerous and inappropriate !

It should be deleted by a mad mod !

 

[Onetap]

Excellent advice from onetap NOT to unscrew a potential live service.
Only people to check this is the whoever the emergency provider is in NI.

How would they check it, oh wise one?

Maybe they would unscrew the cap and see, whilst being ready to screw the cap back on. It's the only way I can think of to do it.

It is not uncommon for a service to be missed and left live after a new service is put into a property

I'm referring to the distribution pipes, not the service pipe. The meter has gone, as he said and as I said. The distribution pipes are probably dead, as I said.

PS. That should have read 'wizened one'.

 

[namsag]

Agile can you not see NOT in CAPS.


Onetap.
Why would the distrubition pipes be changed there is still tens of thousands of miles of cast pipe in this country that is perfectly ok .
And they still get new services added to them.
It is not unusual for an existing service in an empty house to be completly missed so new one put in .
Regularly came across that.

And your comment was get someone out this did not say get the appropriate body who have they proper equipement to deal with what may happen if you just un screwed the cap.
Obviously you dont have a clue that a service pipe can snap or come out of a fitting underground ets Etc
And the rules and regs on working on live gas and when 2 men are required etc
Stick to plumbing you wont blow someone up

 

[Onetap]

Onetap.
Why would the distrubition pipes be changed there is still tens of thousands of miles of cast pipe in this country that is perfectly ok .

There are two reasons that were in the original post.

"I bought a Victorian house in N.Ireland .............. Town gas stopped being produced here donkeys years ago and, unlike the rest of the UK, there was no natural gas available so most folks use oil for their heating."

So, the two reasons are that;

1) It is not in "this country", it is in Northern Ireland.

2) According to the OP, they stopped producing town gas a long time ago and did not introduce natural gas in Northern Ireland. So the gas mains in Northern Ireland were PROBABLY abandoned and WOULD have fallen into disrepair, unless the NI gas suppliers have spent 40 years maintaining a network of unused pipes. The main distribution system was PROBABLY unusable when they recently re-introduced natural gas.

Besides which , " thousands of miles of cast pipe in this country that is still perfectly OK"?

The phrase 'ductile cast iron medium pressure gas mains' doesn't ring any bells, then? It should.

Obviously you dont have a clue that a service pipe can snap or come out of a fitting underground ets Etc
And the rules and regs on working on live gas and when 2 men are required etc
Stick to plumbing you wont blow someone up

Unfortunately, I do. Indeed, that was the subject my first encounter with British Gas/Transco/Centrica and its incompetent, know-all, dangerous directors and employees. And I kept all the paperwork from that incident, if anyone should ever want to question my recollections.

Remind me, who was it that trained you, Namsag?

My comments above did not refer to live gas.

The service pipe would have been the property of the gas suppliers. The OP should ask them to remove the section that is in his way. If they should decline to do so, on the grounds that it is abandoned and they have no further interest in it, he will be able to cut and remove it, but I'd still ensure the open end was capped.

Do you know what the difference is between BG and the IRA?

 

[brianthegas]

You cannot assume anything so it needs to be checked, best free as described above.

Gas regulations also cover dead ex-gas pipes which should still be capped at each end.

Of course if disconnected that has little effect apart from complying with the regulations.

Tony

Spot on Tony

 

[fedupregisteringforstuff]

Have a look at the pdf here:
http://www.phoenixgroupni.com/fs/doc/Dial_Before_You_Dig_Booklet.pdf

I wouldn't worry about internal pipework, but for peace of mind ring one of the following numbers listed within:
028 9055 5819
07800 626051

They are engineering helplines rather than customer service lines if that's any consolation.

 

[namsag]

Onetap showing your limited knowledge again .
Where do you get 40 years from.

Northern ireland stopped using towns gas in 1987
And then gained a domestic premises natural gas supply in 1997 with it being shipped through the SNIP.
It had a pre-existing towns gas network which was harnessed into the new network with 20,000 homes in belfast reconnected to it. Before then being extended..

WTF do you mean your comments dont relate to live gas if you are advising taking a cap of a pipe to see if it has gas then IF its there this is dealing with LIVE gas as there is no way of turning it off if something happens.


Its a really simple answer the guy needs to ask the pros to check not a half wit plumber like yourself. Which several of us have advised him to do for safetys sake . Just in case it has been missed.

 

[Symptoms]

Thanks to all who've responded to my original question ... lots of useful advice.

Special thanks to fedupregisteringforstuff for the link to Phoenix's booklet and engineering helplines ... I owe you a pint for sparing me the horrible Customer Care experience. It looks likely, according to the booklet, that they'll have slipped in new plakka supply pipes as loose fit inside the old cast iron gas mains so my old iron pipes may not be connected. I'll give them a ring tomorrow to confirm and then post here with their answers.

namsag - my bit of NI only got natural gas in the last 3 or 4 years or so ... I'm not in the Greater Belfast area.

 

[Symptoms]

Update as promised:

I contacted Phoenix's engineering dept, as per fedupregisteringforstuff's advice, the phone picked-up on 2nd ring, helpful woman took my call and I explained the situation, she promised the 'boss' engineer (my description) would call me the following morning ... this initial phone call was very late afternoon.

8.50am the following morning the 'boss' engineer phoned me after having first looked at Phoenix's mains network plans for my area. Everything in my area (and street) is run in new plakka and the "historic" (his term) mains network is not used or connected, infact the old mains are vented to the open air at some strategic place /places. They rarely use the old cast iron stuff as a conduit to run loose fit new plakka inside, except in difficult access situations.

He said that my old iron pipe is not 'live' and so can be removed. He said that when removed there may be (but unlikely) a residual aroma of town gas from within the pipe ... nothing to worry about.

Good result ... and thanks again to all those who posted. Oh, and full marks to Pheonix Gas engineering dept for a prompt and professional service.