Replaced BFP 11R3

[agriffiths]

Hi all - I have a Trianco Contractor HE110 internal combi, and today had to fit a new oil pump, Danfoss BFP 11R3 as the original had seized. I can get the boiler to fire, but looking through the inspection hole, the flame goes out after 1-3 seconds and the boiler locks out.

I've taken the horshoe clip out, as this is a two pipe system, oil is coming through and I've changed the pressure from the factory setting (2.25 turns) and it only seems to try to work at about 0.75 to 1.25 turns. Any suggestions very grateful as our house has been without heat and hot water since yesterday afternoon...

TIA

 

[Agile]

The setings of the pressure affect the mixture which needs to be set using a combustion analyser.

It may be failing due to mixture or more likely from not sensing the flame. Does it have a photocell and if so is that correctly connected and clean?

Using a boiler with the combustion wrong can cause it to soot up very quickly which is time consuming and messy to clean.

Tony

 

[agriffiths]

Thanks - The new pump was set at exactly the same pressure setting as the one that was removed, photocell removed, cleaned and put back, and no other settings have been changed...?

 

[Tipper]

1 You need a pressure guage to set the pressure...turns of the adjuster is simply not good enough.

2 You then need a combustion analyser to check/set the air damper to get the required CO2 reading.

Alternatively, call an engineer!

 

[agriffiths]

Pump pressure is 9.8bar, air damper is set to 5.3 (as per Riello spec) and the readings are as they were when the original pump was on, so nothing has changed, just seems that the pump gets the oil up to the burner, ignites then the flame goes out and the burner locks out.

The photocell is very clean, and inserted correctly (interesting point to note, you can't seem to fool it by putting a light next to it) and I've tried to run it without the PC, and it does exactly what I expected it to.

So - it seems that pump is not quite getting the oil pressure needed post ignition to keep the burner running, so I'll just have to keep resetting it until the pressure builds up past the purging cycle each time...

 

[Tibbot]

I've changed the pressure from the factory setting (2.25 turns) and it only seems to try to work at about 0.75 to 1.25 turns.

Just think, in another life, you might have used this method to steer the Titanic.

 

[agriffiths]

Well, after some further attempts, and hearing the flame go out, I took the air intake pipe off at the burner, and fired it up. When it locked out, a large plume of exhaust smoke came out from the air intake.

Is this likely to be that the flue is blocked? I've been outside and taken the cover off, and shone a torch in, and can't see anything the length of the flue outside, so my guess is there is something blocking it inside. We have had some very strong winds and torrential rain for 3-4 days, so there is a chance this may be causing a problem.

Just taken out and cleaned the baffles and condensor plate etc and tried again. The boiler fires, runs for 10 seconds and stops, and I can see the flame go out. Now - is this due to the electrode setting? If they are too far apart, or dirty, I would assume that they can't maintain the spark to keep the flame going. I'm going to check the gap, and reset and also give them a quick clean too, and see what happens.....

Fixed it! Cleaned out the electrodes and dipped the nozzle in kerosene and cleaned it. Reset the gap, checked it, reset it again once the flame ring was re-positioned (stupid design), then reassembled and wooof! Nice hot water and hot rads! Hooray for me

(Oh, and thanks for the Titanic joke, just what I needed when my 3 month old son really needs the heating back on) What I am going to do is write up the pressure setting in terms of turns of the allan key, so that anyone else will be able to see that 2.25 turns equates to 9.8 bar....

 

[Tibbot]

What I am going to do is write up the pressure setting in terms of turns of the allan key, so that anyone else will be able to see that 2.25 turns equates to 9.8 bar....

Whilst at it you can write up how many turns of the ship's wheel will equate from Southampton to New York. It's not a joke, just a comparison as to how far off your methods are. You've foolishly concluded that cos' your boiler fires it's combustion is correct.

 

[agriffiths]

What I am going to do is write up the pressure setting in terms of turns of the allan key, so that anyone else will be able to see that 2.25 turns equates to 9.8 bar....

Whilst at it you can write up how many turns of the ship's wheel will equate from Southampton to New York. It's not a joke, just a comparison as to how far off your methods are. You've foolishly concluded that cos' your boiler fires it's combustion is correct.

Thanks for your concern. Pump and boiler tested. Pump pressure 9.7 bar, CO2 11.8, air damper set to 5.3.

So, not so foolish, and given that none of the settings had changed since it was last checked, just a new pump installed. So, maybe I'll take your advice and sail to New York and write that down for you.

So should you need to help someone out that may not have the correct tools to hand, but does need their boiler to work and have it checked later, then they could use the turns of the allan key guide to get them up and running.......just a thought to try and be helpful, rather than negative and sarcastic.....

 

[Burnerman]

I'm a little confused here, because once the flame appears, the work of the electrodes is done.....they don't need to keep sparking after that?
I'm also confused that shining a lamp on the photocell has no effect on it?
Anyway, so long as the thing is going, thats the main thing.
John

 

[Tibbot]

So should you need to help someone out that may not have the correct tools to hand, but does need their boiler to work and have it checked later, then they could use the turns of the allan key guide to get them up and running.......just a thought to try and be helpful, rather than negative and sarcastic.....

Competent DIYers should always have the correct tools to hand. Having avoided the cost of a tradesman, those who then want to work without proper equipment are not DIYers but tighta**es. When changing a fuel pump you need to set pressure with a gauge then CO2/air with at a wet kit/combustion meter and smoke pump, there is no alternative advice.

The negative and sarcastic part happens when the thing fills with soot or the baffles bend.

 

[agriffiths]

Interesting point to note, the professional tradesmen that installed it, set it wrong. The pump pressure was nearly 14 bar, the air damper was set at 8.9 and CO2 readings were off the scale when I had it independently checked. I then had it all set to the correct settings by a competent, trained installer, who had to clean it all out.

I then cleaned it out again, since I had the burner off and was testing. I then had the same installer out to retest - who incidentally told me about how he has used the turn of the key analogy to others.

A competent DIYer probably does not need a full set of testing, pressure and analyser kit as it's expensive stuff.

There wasn't much soot, and no bent baffles - and no, I'm not a tightass, I just needed it to work quick, so my son didn't freeze, as the engineers tend not to come out at weekends....

 

[slapper]

Interesting point to note, the professional tradesmen that installed it, set it wrong. The pump pressure was nearly 14 bar, the air damper was set at 8.9 and CO2 readings were off the scale when I had it independently checked. I then had it all set to the correct settings by a competent, trained installer, who had to clean it all out.

I then cleaned it out again, since I had the burner off and was testing. I then had the same installer out to retest - who incidentally told me about how he has used the turn of the key analogy to others.

A competent DIYer probably does not need a full set of testing, pressure and analyser kit as it's expensive stuff.

There wasn't much soot, and no bent baffles - and no, I'm not a tightass, I just needed it to work quick, so my son didn't freeze, as the engineers tend not to come out at weekends....

If the wheel nuts on your car were set to a preset torque.would you guess that torque when replacing a wheel. You my friend talk absolute nonsense and are a danger to your family. Hopefully you check for carbon monoxide or did you guess.

 

[Tibbot]

A competent DIYer probably does not need a full set of testing, pressure and analyser kit as it's expensive stuff.

Just to repeat. When changing a fuel pump the only way to proceed is to set pressure with a gauge, check combustion with a wet kit or meter and smoke emissions with a smoke pump.

 

[agriffiths]

Interesting point to note, the professional tradesmen that installed it, set it wrong. The pump pressure was nearly 14 bar, the air damper was set at 8.9 and CO2 readings were off the scale when I had it independently checked. I then had it all set to the correct settings by a competent, trained installer, who had to clean it all out.

I then cleaned it out again, since I had the burner off and was testing. I then had the same installer out to retest - who incidentally told me about how he has used the turn of the key analogy to others.

A competent DIYer probably does not need a full set of testing, pressure and analyser kit as it's expensive stuff.

There wasn't much soot, and no bent baffles - and no, I'm not a tightass, I just needed it to work quick, so my son didn't freeze, as the engineers tend not to come out at weekends....

If the wheel nuts on your car were set to a preset torque.would you guess that torque when replacing a wheel. You my friend talk absolute nonsense and are a danger to your family. Hopefully you check for carbon monoxide or did you guess.

Right - I'll say this one more time, so those of you who haven't read this properly can see it. The pump comes pre set to the correct pressure, and no other changes were made to the settings that were there pre pump replacement. The 'professionals' that installed the boiler got the settings wrong, so I brought in another engineer, who tested it, and set it all as per the correct settings, checked gas, CO2 and pump pressure, with all the correct tools. I DID NOT NEED TO CHANGE ANY SETTINGS, and incidentally, when they were checked by the engineer on Monday pm, they were spot on. Pump pressure was 9.7 bar, just under the setting of the last one, air damper at 5.3, as he left it last time, and CO2 at 11.8. Perhaps I don't talk nonsense, my family are absolutely not in danger, but thank you for your concern. I don't guess these things, I'm a competent engineer and electrician, as well as being a very handy car mechanic, builder and plumber - so maybe you can try to be a little more helpful, a little less eager to slander people you don't know, and a little more open minded to those of us with enough skill and intelligence to get things to work and use specialist tools with a specialist engineer to check as soon as they are free to do so. I don't see how this is being a danger to my family, or absolute nonsense.