Replacing a complicated light fitting

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I am replacing a simple pendant light (see brown live, blue neutral) but its wired into a complicated wiring block. Three wires come out of the ceiling and are arranged into 2 black neutrals alongside the fixture blue neutral; 3 red loop wires; a black live, with the fixture live; and two earths connected to the plastic.

I am planning a like for like replacement of the live/neutral from the old light fixture to a new one. I just wanted to check it was safe to do so, and if there was anything sensible to keep in mind?

Thanks

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Well - that must be one of the worst bits of work ever seen.

First of all, you need a new rose as that one has fallen to bits.

Then you need to terminate the wires properly so that it looks like this:

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That is really badly terminated!

The copper should not be showing outside the terminals.

Also, there should be an earth wire in each cable, so if you have three cables, there should be 3 earth wires.

Assuming all the earths are correct and present, you need to make sure that all wires are connected thus:

The earth wires together. If the new fitting has an earth terminal, they should be connected to it. If the light fitting is double insulated and does not need an earth connection, just connect the earths to each other in a stand-alone terminal block.

The three reds (loop) together in a terminal block not connected to anything else.

The single black should be marked with red sleeving and connected to the light fitting's live terminal.

The two blacks together and connected to the light fitting's neutral terminal.
 
Thanks for the help! If I understand correctly I need to keep the wires connected in the same arrangement as present but in new wiring blocks (like below) including the three earths, as the new fitting doesn't have an earth terminal.

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Show us a pic of your new light fittings base / terminal block.
It would probably be best to make the connections in a maintenance free junction box ,and a flex from that to your new light fittings terminal block.
I assume you are not just fitting a new rose /pendant ?
 
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Here are two images of the light fitting. Thanks for any input
 
It would probably be best to make the connections in a maintenance free junction box ,and a flex from that to your new light fittings terminal block.
 
Google "Lighting junction box" and select the one you fancy.
upload_2022-2-8_21-21-2.png
The black wire connected is not a neutral, be very careful to mark this wire so it does not get mixed up with the other blacks, this is the line wire to the lamp.
 
You have one of the dreaded metal cased class 2 ("double insulated") fittings. That means that rather than protection being provided by basic insulation in combination with earthing the metalwork, protection is provided by "double or reinforced insulation".

What this means in practice is you can't use the main body of the fitting as an electrical enclosure, and the outer sheath of the cable(s) must be contained within the terminal box. Given the size of the terminal box it is totally impractical to perform loop-in wiring within the provided terminal box. So the only reasonable way to install the fitting while maintaining it's "double insulated" status is to install a separate junction box in the void above the fitting. If the junction box will not be accessible for inspection then it should be of a "maintenance free" type. Exactly what constitutes accessible for inspection is not fully defined in the regs, but most would regard a junction box that can be accessed by taking down the fitting and pulling it through the hole as accessible.

If you are going to go for the "access through the hole in the ceiling" approach then you want your junction box to be as small as possible to minimise damage to the ceiling. Chock block in a chockbox seems like it would be a good bet. One of the quickwire junction boxes may also be a workable option.
 
You have one of the dreaded metal cased class 2 ("double insulated") fittings. That means that rather than protection being provided by basic insulation in combination with earthing the metalwork, protection is provided by "double or reinforced insulation".

What this means in practice is you can't use the main body of the fitting as an electrical enclosure, and the outer sheath of the cable(s) must be contained within the terminal box. Given the size of the terminal box it is totally impractical to perform loop-in wiring within the provided terminal box. So the only reasonable way to install the fitting while maintaining it's "double insulated" status is to install a separate junction box in the void above the fitting. If the junction box will not be accessible for inspection then it should be of a "maintenance free" type. Exactly what constitutes accessible for inspection is not fully defined in the regs, but most would regard a junction box that can be accessed by taking down the fitting and pulling it through the hole as accessible.

If you are going to go for the "access through the hole in the ceiling" approach then you want your junction box to be as small as possible to minimise damage to the ceiling. Chock block in a chockbox seems like it would be a good bet. One of the quickwire junction boxes may also be a workable option.
I despise these luminaires. It is often questionable how they can possibly be installed into an existing installation to maintain Class II status. I'd be more than happy for them to be banned. Just because metallic fittings can be Class II doesn't necessarily mean that the manufacturer should just decide that theirs will be (presumably done for cost rather than safety reasons). The supplied connector blocks are virtually unusable - and yet they are essential for retaining Class II protection.
 
I appreciate all the advice. I installed the light successfully with a junction box. Thanks for all the help!
 

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