Replacing an electric oven

[JohnW2]

I guess it comes down to: If you are a professional paid to change fixed wiring you should test it/cover yourself.

Exactly. As I've said, if I were an electrician doing the work for financial gain, I'm sure I would do all the testing, just as would EFLI. It's partially 'CYA' but also, as EFLI is saying, perhaps part of the 'professional service' that some would expect of a professional one was paying.

It's the same in many walks of life. If/when I do (in my case 'intellectual', not physical) work for a paying client, I would usually do a lot more 'checking and testing' (of the work itself, assumptions on which it was based etc.) than if I were doing it for myself.

Kind Regards, John

 

[JohnW2]

But if not when plugging something into an existing socket, why when wiring something to an existing FCU?

For the simple reason that you may have disturbed the wiring when connecting to the FCU and you need to check that the appliance is satisfactorily connected.

Fair enough, but you can't really 'check' that for certainty without taking the appliance apart - since the 'disturbance to the wiring' could occur when you re-attach the FCU faceplate to its box.

I'm with EFLI here. If I were to visit a property, I would always check the operation of the RCD (customer willing of course) and carry out a Zs check.

As I've said, if I were an electrician doing paid work, so would I.

If I was there to plug in an oven, I would carry out the Zs on that outlet, or carry out a flying lead test on the appliance casing. ... If your tests failed, you would then know there was an issue that required further investigation.

True - but as both BAS and I have said, it's quite possible that there might be an issue with some other nearby socket that "required further investigation" - but you will not have picked that up because you only tested the socket which 'happened' to be a different socket that the customer wanted the oven plugged into. If there were two or more sockets in the vicinity of the oven's location, would you test them all?

Kind Regards, John

 

[JohnW2]

I think that far more involved than turning on the light

Yes, it is - but it's still just a 'functional test'. With some equipment, functional testing can be complex (think of IT equipment, complex control systems etc.) but it's still just functional testing. If it's just a light, the only functional test required (or possible) is to make sure that it lights up when it should!

I had not mentioned RCD testing but I would do that - unless the customer did not want other circuits to be disconnected. For a single circuit RCBO, no reason not to.

Fair enough - as I've said, if working as an electrician, I probably would as well - but I would say that's probably equivalent to tests of other parts of a braking system which would probably not usually be done (unless specifically asked for) as part of a routine brake pad replacement.

Kind Regards, John

 

[ban-all-sheds]

One is a diyer. The other is being paid for a professional service.

So do you not agree that DIYers should work to the same standards as professional electricians?

 

[JohnW2]

So do you not agree that DIYers should work to the same standards as professional electricians?

It's not really a question of working to different standards but, rather, that (a) professionals have much more reason to take a 'CYA' approach and (b) that it can be argued that a professional undertaking paid word might be expected to undertake tests which go somewhat beyond the work that they had actually done (just as EFLI seems to thing that a professional replacing his brake pads might be expected to undertake "I&T" of the braking system in general).

Kind Regards, John

 

[EFLImpudence]

So do you not agree that DIYers should work to the same standards as professional electricians?

It's not really a question of working to different standards but, rather, that (a) professionals have much more reason to take a 'CYA' approach

I don't consider what I have been saying to be 'CMA' but more responsible and caring workmanship.

and (b) that it can be argued that a professional undertaking paid word might be expected to undertake tests which go somewhat beyond the work that they had actually done (just as EFLI seems to thing that a professional replacing his brake pads might be expected to undertake "I&T" of the braking system in general).

Again, I don't think that is what I said.

I consider checking the brakes do work after replacing some pads to be a functional test but also essential for safety.
Checking the oven works - in all its functions - is not really essential for safety but the earth connection is.

 

[JohnW2]

It's not really a question of working to different standards but, rather, that (a) professionals have much more reason to take a 'CYA' approach

I don't consider what I have been saying to be 'CMA' but more responsible and caring workmanship.

Perhaps - but if I do the work, without 'CMA' and some disastrous consequence follows, it's unlikely that I would end up losing my livelihood; if I were a professional electrician in the same position, I might. In any event, as I keep saying, it really all a question of 'where one draws the line' when deciding what constitutes 'responsible and caring workmanship', which is clearly an issue about which opinions will vary - and also the extent to which there is an expectation that a professional will (as part of 'responsible and caring workmanship') do things beyond the work he has explicitly been asked to do.

Again, I don't think that is what I said. ... I consider checking the brakes do work after replacing some pads to be a functional test but also essential for safety. Checking the oven works - in all its functions - is not really essential for safety but the earth connection is.

Yes, but one could argue that checking/testing all of the braking system (hydraulics etc.) - which I would regard as analogous to testing an electrical circuit - is also theoretically "essential for safety" (competently fitted pads, which pass a functional test now, are not much use if the hydraulic system is on the verge of failing) - but I don't think it would be done routinely as part of a routine brake pad replacement.

Kind Regards, John

 

[jrussuk]

I have found the oven I want and will be getting an electrician in to install it. The only worry I have is my old oven is 3kw and the new one is 3.8kw. Bering in mind the electrics are less than 10 years old would there be any case that the separate feed would need to be rewired? The feed has a 16amp trip.

 

[jrussuk]

Anyone help??

 

[JohnW2]

I have found the oven I want and will be getting an electrician in to install it. The only worry I have is my old oven is 3kw and the new one is 3.8kw. Bering in mind the electrics are less than 10 years old would there be any case that the separate feed would need to be rewired? The feed has a 16amp trip.

Your electrician will be able to confirm, but I very much doubt that there will be a problem with the existing circuit - and one can but presume (electrician will confirm) that the circuit was wired with cable appropriate for the 16A breaker (in reality, almoist any credible cable would probably be OK). 3.8kW is too much to be connected via a plug/socket, so it will have to be 'hard-wired'.

Kind Regards, John

 

[jrussuk]

Nice one, the old oven is hard wired so hopefully the circuit will be ok. Wanted to make sure otherwise i would get another 3kw oven to make sure i don't need a new circuit and extra expense.

 

[JohnW2]

Nice one, the old oven is hard wired so hopefully the circuit will be ok. Wanted to make sure otherwise i would get another 3kw oven to make sure i don't need a new circuit and extra expense.

Assuming that (as is almost always the case) the 3.8kW is quoted at 240V, that would represent about 15.2A at 230v, hence OK on a 16A circuit. In fact, one is allowed to apply the concept of 'diversity' to cooking appliances (which takes account of the fact that not all bits will be on for all of the time) - which means that a 3.8kW cooking appliance can be considered as a load ob about 11.6A (at 230V) - more than low enough to be on a 16A circuit. So, provided that the 16A circuit is 'OK' (which I'm sure your electrician should be able to confirm), all should be well. In any event, if the cable is OK for it (which it probably is), the electrician could probably upgrade the breaker to a 20A one if he wanted to.

Kind Regards, John