Replacing Halogen Lights - whats Live and whats neutral

[casinojoe1]

how many lights does the switch turn on? and does it say 240v on the bulb itself? or is this the packaging?

 

[maderic]

Yes it says 240v on the bulb itself. Theres a total of 5 lights in the kitchen ceiling and 2 wall switches at end end of the kitchen

 

[maderic]

I meant each end

 

[bernardgreen]

Bernard, just looked at the packaging. There is nothing about SELV on it but it does say transformer free on it

[1] Is this the box of the new lamps that says transformer free ?

[2] And the new lamps are 230 volt ?

If it is yes to both then you need to find the 230 volt supply in the ceiling.

You say the existing white leads go to box 2 inch long. little black connector box which looks about 2inches long but quite thin. Is this the transformer that you are talking about.

I would GUESS that is a transformer that has the 230 volt live and neutral connected to it.( it takes in 230 volts mains and provides low voltage for low voltage lamps ) BUT it may be a junction box and the white wires you have are carrying 230 volt. ( and totally the wrong type of wire if it is 230 volt)

If you gently pull the white wires towards the hole in the ceiling the transformer or connector should slide towards the hole and come out of the hole. That should provide access to the live and neutral you need for the new lights.

try that in the day light as you need to have the lights power OFF when you do it.


LV is 230 volts. SELV is less than 50 volts.

 

[maderic]

Yes the new bulbs say 240v on them and yes the new packaging sayss transformer free.

I understand what you mean when you say pull the wires gently through to reveal the little connector box but am unsure of what you mean when you say this will give me access to live and neutral.

Do we mean that the actual mains lighting cable of brown live and blue neutral will be going into the one end of this connector and the two white wires coming out the other side which will let me identify which of the white wires is neutral and which is live?

 

[bernardgreen]

Do we mean that the actual mains lighting cable of brown live and blue neutral will be going into the one end of this connector and the two white wires coming out the other side which will let me identify which of the white wires is neutral and which is live?

The live and netral will ( should ) be going in to the other end. Red (or brown) will be the live and black (or blue) the neutral. You will have to take them out of the transformer, discard the transformer and then connect the red and black to the new light fitting.

A picture of the new fitting would help to see any problems you may have, Like ensuring the cables are not going to become over heated by the heat from the lamp.

There may be a need to connect the earth. If there are two red and two blue then there almost certainly will be two earth wires, they MUST be joined to each other and if there is an earth terminal on the new light they must connect to that.

 

[maderic]

Bernard, Ive just pulled one of the downlighters through and it revealed a largish white cylinder type device which i guess must be a transformer? What does this tell us and would there be one of these attached to each of the 5 ceiling lights?

thanks

 

[mo2]

was there a mains cable connected to it?

 

[maderic]

Yeah it appeared so but I'll take a closer look at it tomorrow in the light when I can also get the mains off.

Would you think this was a transformer or some other sort of junction affair. Would you expect one of these above each ceiling light?

I'm thinking now that if this is a transformer and in my very limited electrical knowledge that low voltage bulbs ie 12v should have been used all along in this lighting set up and that these new fittings I have at 240v transformer free are not suitable?

 

[mo2]

Yeah it appeared so but I'll take a closer look at it tomorrow in the light when I can also get the mains off.

Would you think this was a transformer or some other sort of junction affair. Would you expect one of these above each ceiling light?

I'm thinking now that if this is a transformer and in my very limited electrical knowledge that low voltage bulbs ie 12v should have been used all along in this lighting set up and that these new fittings I have at 240v transformer free are not suitable?

Shouldn't take the risk of having the mains on, or was this earlier today?

Check the bulbs in the current fitting, they are most likely to be SELV. It sounds like each light has it's own transformer and the supply from these transformers can be used to power the mains light.

If it looks like this: http://tlc-direct.co.uk/Main_Index/Necessities_Index/Junction_Boxes/index.html

then I'm confused

 

[maderic]

Ok. thanks very much for all your help already. I''ll try and take a digi pic tommrorow but I've just been up in the roof looking on top of the bathroom downlights whose setup (there are 4 or 5 in the ceiling) i'm sure is the same. this revealed a thin circular transformer (only one), junction boxes and a balck connector box (similar to the one I described earlier which seemed to be attached to the actual light fitting

So it looks like we do have a low voltage setup, that 240v bulbs should never have been used in the first place and that these latest fittings I have bought (240v bulbs and transformer free ) are just not suitable?

As for what that white circular thing is in the void above the kitchen is I dont know unless its a different looking transformer to the one in the void above the bathroom?

 

[mo2]

As for what that white circular thing is in the void above the kitchen is I dont know unless its a different looking transformer to the one in the void above the bathroom?

Did you have a look at my link?

 

[maderic]

yes,but?

 

[mo2]

yes,but?

wanted to know if it looks the same.

We need pictures and you need a multi meter. So, when you take your piccies tomorrow, go and buy a multi meter.

 

[maderic]

Please will you guys give me some guidance on how to use this multimeter?

Thanks