Replacing Twin Entry Radiator valves

[andysayle]

Afternoon all,

I've moved into a house that has radiators with twin entry valves connected to 10mm diameter copper piping. I want to replace these valves with TRV's, so I called a few plumbers in to give me some quotes.

three of the five plumbers said it should be a simple swap, just drain the system, replace the valves, extend one of the pipes to the other side of the radiator, refill and balance. However, two of the plumbers said that the 10mm pipe will need completely replacing with 15mm pipe to work with a TRV. Can anyone tell me if this is an accurate statement, or is it the plumber trying to fleece me for more work?

One of the two that told me that, also said this would be needed as it is not possible to flush out the system properly with 10mm pipes.

I'm half tempted to have a go at replacing all these TRV's myself, is it a job that can be handled on a DIY basis, or is it really something for an experienced plumber? The heating system is running off a Worcester 28cdi combi boiler....

Thanks
Andy

 

[transam]

some TRV's come complete with 10mmX 15mm reducers , should they need to be fitted on 10mm !!

 

[andytw]

Hi,

10mm pipe is fine.
My understanding, contrary to what one reads on forums, is that the velocity of the water in microbore pipe is higher than in larger pipes so they are less prone to sediment collection.
As already posted many TRVs come with 10 to 15mm adapters.
I have fitted quite a few TRVs to 10mm pipe.

I don't think that the plumber is trying to fleece you, it just may be that he doesn't know
There is an assumption that calling in the experts will get you absolutely correct information. This is not always the case.

2222

 

[DeltaT2]

Afternoon all,

I've moved into a house that has radiators with twin entry valves connected to 10mm diameter copper piping. I want to replace these valves with TRV's, so I called a few plumbers in to give me some quotes.

three of the five plumbers said it should be a simple swap, just drain the system, replace the valves, extend one of the pipes to the other side of the radiator, refill and balance. However, two of the plumbers said that the 10mm pipe will need completely replacing with 15mm pipe to work with a TRV. Can anyone tell me if this is an accurate statement, or is it the plumber trying to fleece me for more work?

One of the two that told me that, also said this would be needed as it is not possible to flush out the system properly with 10mm pipes.

I'm half tempted to have a go at replacing all these TRV's myself, is it a job that can be handled on a DIY basis, or is it really something for an experienced plumber? The heating system is running off a Worcester 28cdi combi boiler....

Thanks
Andy

Firstly Andy I'd double check that the tube is 10mm OD, it was more common to have 8mm tube with 'Maxitwin' type radiator valves.

It's a fairly easy job to install TRVs, but with the limited work around the UK, I'm sure you can get a good Plumber/Heating Engineer in your area to do it for you. I always think it's good to give local lads some work, then you've got someone that'll turn out for you on Xmas Day when water is pizzing through your ceiling or the likes. I hope you agree.

 

[Charnwood]

Maxitwin twin-entry rad valves "were" available in both 8 and 10mm. We sold more 10mm than 8mm.

 

[simond]

FIVE quotes??? To change some pesky rad valves?

And now you think you might do it yourself?

Do you realise you have wasted around 8 hours of these people's working life? In these troubled times do you think it is fair to use all these people's time and diesel free, when all of them had only 20% chance of obtaining paid work. Or none of them now.

Many million pound contracts go out to less tenderers than that.

It simply isn't cricket to waste a tradesmen's time like this, they have families and bills too you know.

 

[holty]

well said simond.

 

[gas112]

But is it not a good thing he got so many as in reality 2 people have lied to him (not knowing 10mm valves available is unbelievable).
What if they where the only 2 people he had got out.He would now be seriously out of pocket.
Also 2 people on here are talking about getting 15mm trv`s with 10mm reducers WHY 10mm trv`s are available off the shelf

 

[Nige F]

FIVE quotes??? To change some pesky rad valves?

And now you think you might do it yourself?

It simply isn't cricket .

Owzat ? The 3rd. umpire says ....it`s a free market economy , live with it , you probably voted for it.

 

[FiremanT]

But is it not a good thing he got so many as in reality 2 people have lied to him (not knowing 10mm valves available is unbelievable).

That is a fair point, but I rather suspect he was going through the quoting exerise, not as a genuine prospect but as a fact finding mission. i.e. using the guys as a free technical resource.

Also 2 people on here are talking about getting 15mm trv`s with 10mm reducers WHY 10mm trv`s are available off the shelf

I haven't loooked recently, but you are probably more likely to get a discounted price for 15mm valves, rather than 8mm, more so if you are using, say, Draytons, rertherr than the cheap ones.

 

[DeltaT2]

FIVE quotes??? To change some pesky rad valves?

And now you think you might do it yourself?

Do you realise you have wasted around 8 hours of these people's working life? In these troubled times do you think it is fair to use all these people's time and diesel free, when all of them had only 20% chance of obtaining paid work. Or none of them now.

Many million pound contracts go out to less tenderers than that.

It simply isn't cricket to waste a tradesmen's time like this, they have families and bills too you know.

Well, one way to stop DaftyDIYers doing Plumber work, stop giving them advice on DIY forums!!

The problem is mate; the trade is f.cked, ever since the UK Government started paying for CC/CCCs cowboy courses, any daft git can now trade as a Plumber. So if some CC/CCC wasted his time on giving this guy a quote, tough, get over it.

 

[DeltaT2]

Maxitwin twin-entry rad valves "were" available in both 8 and 10mm. We sold more 10mm than 8mm.

Very true mate, but you'd rarely see 10mm Maxitwins around here, in fact if I recall, the Gas Board for example wouldn't supply 10mm maxitwins with their kit, any big rads were fitted with WH/LS 10mm valves.

 

[andysayle]

FIVE quotes??? To change some pesky rad valves?

And now you think you might do it yourself?

Do you realise you have wasted around 8 hours of these people's working life? In these troubled times do you think it is fair to use all these people's time and diesel free, when all of them had only 20% chance of obtaining paid work. Or none of them now.

Many million pound contracts go out to less tenderers than that.

It simply isn't cricket to waste a tradesmen's time like this, they have families and bills too you know.

I think it is entirely fair. First of all, the quotes were not just for changing some "pesky" radiator valves, that was just a small part of the work. I also wanted a new radiator plumbing in to my workshop, a new towel radiator plumbing into a new en suite, I wanted five new radiators fitting, the boiler needs servicing too, I have a dishwasher and washing machine supply and drain that needs plumbing in, and I also wanted a zone valve fitting, along with two wireless thermostats. Not only did I want all that work doing, I also wanted the tradesman to supply all the items needed, (five rads, 13 TRVs, 2 thermostats, zone valve and all fittings). And you think it is okay just to get one, perhaps two quotes for all that?

Tradesmen are not the only people living in these tough times you know, I only have a limited amount of cash to do these things, so I want to make sure it goes as far as possible too. I was originally going to get 3 quotes, but when there was a difference in the quotes of over £1500, do you not think it would be wise to get a couple more to find out why? I was also explicitly clear in telling the plumbers that I was obtaining other quotes, even so far as to asking them why their quotes differed so much, and why they were telling work needed doing that others say didn't need doing. In future, perhaps you might want to either wait until you know (or, heaven forbid, ask) the entire background before getting on your high horse and spouting off, or just bite your tongue? It's really not very constructive slating me for what I am doing, when I am just trying to make sure I spend my money wisely, and don't waste it on work that does not need doing, or is fundamentally wrong. The suggestion of me doing it DIY, was purely out of frustration from being told different things, and getting wildly different quotes for seemingly the same job. I would much prefer to give the work to a tradesman, as it means I don't have to take a few days off work.

Back on topic anyway, the pipework is definitely 10mm OD, I have measured it with some calipers. If TRVs can be fitted to that size pipe with no issues, then surely I can just ask the plumber to extend the existing pipework so the TRV is on one side of the rad, and the lock valve is on the other?

Thanks,
Andy

 

[DeltaT2]

Well said Andy. I'm glad you confirned the tube OD & hope you get sorted out with a good Tradesman.

The problem with our trade Andy is; Gone are the days where a time-served Plumber/Heating Engineer turns up at your door, no, now anyone with a van & a six week cowboy course under his belt is a Plumber??!!!
These guys are poorly trained, with limited knowledge, very little experience & are hopeing to learn on the job - with you paying them!!!
Now of course this will only have one outcome.

So please take care with whom you employ.

 

[andysayle]

That's exactly what I am trying to do That's why I quite like this forum, it seems like a good place to check whether what I am being told is correct, as I am not a time served plumber/heating engineer, and I could be paying for who knows what work to be done, when it really doesn't need to be done.

Cheers
Andy