Retaining a cable retainer/clip/tie?

[ericmark]

It would seem we will need to return to using these with escape routes but it's all very well the retainer being metal but what about the stuff we are fasting them to.

The lecture seemed to say drilling holes in beams will still be OK and this will hold the cables away from firemen.

Will they make these

in metal? But will a nail be held in wood long enough?

Even when fitting metal tray and trunking I used plastic RAWL plugs will we need to use these

in future? OK with plaster board but the old stuff I used with masonry walls has been banned. Do you remember spitting on the asbestos wool rolling in in your fingers the putting in the wall with a steel pusher?

Fitting a LAN or speaker cable over a door I would squirt a thin line of silicon sealant and it necessary stick the wires to it with insulation tape until set. That has all gone now metal cable ties rule OK. But a plastic frame to door even if metal behind it what ever we use it will not hold the cable once that plastic melts. There may be wood behind the plaster but the plaster edge would crumble away once the plastic frame has melted.

With some 25mm x 16mm mini trunking we will need some clips to retain the cables once trunking has melted fitting these

inside trunking really defeats the whole idea of trunking where you can add or remove cables as required.

clearly screw has to be central so less than 12 mm of plaster board how much weight will plaster board hold 12 mm from edge in a fire?

 

[ban-all-sheds]

the old stuff I used with masonry walls has been banned. Do you remember spitting on the asbestos wool rolling in in your fingers the putting in the wall with a steel pusher?

Yes.

Next time I'm over at my Mum's I'll see if there's still a tin of it in the garage.

 

[JohnW2]

It would seem we will need to return to using these with escape routes but it's all very well the retainer being metal but what about the stuff we are fasting them to.

I liked those things, and still have a good few in my house. I had presumed, perhaps wrongly, that the reason they had 'disappeared' was the perceived hazard which would arise should the insulation and sheathing of the cable melt, making the clip live, given that it would not be practical to earth every single clip.

Kind Regards, John

 

[ban-all-sheds]

So what are the bodgers who do surface-mounted rewires of council properties going to do now, then?


And is it too soon to start a campaign to have the 18th mandate the use of pyro everywhere?

Seriously - I really think JPEL/64 has lost the plot.

 

[mfarrow]

Someone will come up with some metal painted saddles for conduit, and something similar for trunking, in order to give compliance which is reasonably practicable.

It's not the end of the world.

The metal CU thing is a different matter, as it will mean a lot of work

 

[securespark]

These OTT regs will soon quietly be dropped.

Remember the 15th and the madness with bonding everything metal?

That was addressed come the 16th.

"Great" ideas come into the regs with much fanfare, they are adopted and if they are not deemed successful by the authors, they disappear.

We and the customers are after all just guinea pigs for the electrical organisations' ideas.

Rather like Bill Gates trying out his new OS's on the masses.

 

[ban-all-sheds]

Wrong topic

 

[ericmark]

These OTT regs will soon quietly be dropped.

Remember the 15th and the madness with bonding everything metal?

That was addressed come the 16th.

"Great" ideas come into the regs with much fanfare, they are adopted and if they are not deemed successful by the authors, they disappear.

We and the customers are after all just guinea pigs for the electrical organisations' ideas.

Rather like Bill Gates trying out his new OS's on the masses.

You have a good point as the ELCB-v was replaced by the ELCB-c the need for bonding everything was reduced.

So if a manufacturer comes up with an auto disconnect system for a consumer unit likely that will be given as an alternative in the 18th.

But whole of Amendment 3 seems to revolve around fire. This is not a bad thing but without the products or advise on how to comply it is going to be a problem.

So rewire done with mini trunking and then all papered over until it comes to the EICR. How without removing the cables can one confirm there is a screw in this

long enough to ensure in a fire the cables will not fall without removing the decoration of the room?

I would agree a good re-wire would not use mini trunking but it's not just the installation but also future inspections. Even with metal conduit saddles two coats of paint latter how will you tell?

As yet no one seems to be willing to stick out their neck and say what must be tested in the new EICR. Except we must inspect loft spaces if there are any wires in the loft.

Can you see it. "I want a EICR." "OK you need to remove all insulation in your loft then I will start." Come on we need to get real. To do a PIR on a test board when I did my C&G2391 took around an hour. Do a house to same level and it could take as long as a rewire. OK exaggerating but it would cost more than most are willing to pay so other than with Scottish rented accommodation it will just not happen.

 

[Adam_151]

In what way do you think they are OTT Simon?

In a typical domestic set up you have the cables supported by the joists anyway (and by the time they are gone, a few cables are going to be the least of your worries)

In a decent commercial installation the cables will be supported by basket tray.

Generally its practices such as lashing cables on grid ceilings or running PVC trunking horizontally around corridors and stair wells that will fall fowl of this

 

[ericmark]

When at the moment we make out a Minor Works we do not declare it complies with amendment 3 and we don't detail if we have used metal clips inside the trunking. So only way to find out will be to remove trunking lid. I have like many others I am sure placed items inside trunking to temporary hold wires until the lid is in place so forget metal detectors it needs physical checking and any corking dislodged replaced. This will include telephone and computer cables.

To say all new installations must have is easy. The do a EICR in 5 years time is another thing all together. I had enough problems stopping intruder alarm, telephone and computer IT engineers from putting their cables on my tray never mind following them around fitting metal clips.

 

[ban-all-sheds]

But whole of Amendment 3 seems to revolve around fire.

Indeed.

So where's the holistically influenced change to the Building Regulations to require sprinkler systems in all new builds?