Ring spurs

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has it ever been allowable to have more than 1 double skt on an unfused spur?

If so what edition was it?

May at well share this while I’m here. Not watched it all yet.

 
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Not sure, possibly if both sockets were spurred from the same point, rather than a spur from a spur.

I suspect you mean a spur from a spur. I can't see this this being a problem if done in 4mm2, though not sure if this practice is recognised by those who make the rules.
 
I suspect you mean a spur from a spur. I can't see this this being a problem if done in 4mm2, though not sure if this practice is recognised by those who make the rules.
As you say, there is nothing electrically wrong with having 2 (or more) sockets on a 4mm² unfused spur. There is, of course, an argument that one has to avoid having too much load attached to one point (fairly close to one end of the ring) on a 2.5 mm² ring - but the people who question whether it is acceptable to have two double sockets on the same (4mm²) unfused spur will usually have no problem with two double sockets being separately spurred from two points just a few inches apart on the ring.

You speak about 'what is recognised by those write the rules'. The truth is that no regulations in BS7671 say that one can't have multiple sockets on an unfused spur from a ring - so all one has to do (to comply with regs) is to make sure that the connection of spurs (whether 2.5mm² or 4mm²) to a ring is such that it is "unlikely that any of the cable will be overloaded for long periods of time". The only apparent 'prohibition' of multiple sockets on an unfused spur is the guidance of Appendix 15 - not a regulation.

Kind Regards, John
 
has it ever been allowable to have more than 1 double skt on an unfused spur?
No, for the 15th onwards it's been one single or one double.

14th edition was 'not more than two socket outlets or one twin outlet or one stationary appliance' which is essentially the same, the difference being two singles were allowed then but are not now.

13th edition stated 'not more than two socket outlets or one fixed appliance', without defining single or double, but at the time double outlets were either non-existent or exceptionally rare items, so it's two singles again.
 
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No, for the 15th onwards it's been one single or one double.
As I've just written, you are, of course (at least for 17th & 18th - I can't speak for earlier), talking of the guidance in Appendix 15 of BS7671. To comply with the the actual regulations you only have to satisfy yourself that it is "not likely that any cable will be overloaded for a long period of time".

Kind Regards, John
 
13th 1955 and 13A sockets invented during the war so it seems unlikely ever allowed more than 2 outlets, and in 1955 the cable was thicker 7/0.029 cable would take more current than 2.5 mm².
 
13th 1955 and 13A sockets invented during the war so it seems unlikely ever allowed more than 2 outlets, and in 1955 the cable was thicker 7/0.029 cable would take more current than 2.5 mm².

How much more? Did it ever get to 30A?

I'm guessing not.
 
All I can find give its CCC as from 20A to 23A although it is equivalent to 2.9mm².

Would that be because it is stranded? Perhaps a reason for making solid cored conductors.
 
All I can find give its CCC as from 20A to 23A although it is equivalent to 2.9mm².
I find similar, but there is uncertainty as to the 'installation method' and environmental conditions to which the quoted CCCs relate.

For example, this source indicates a CCC of 20A for 7/0.029" (2.9 mm²), but also gives (one assumes for the same installation method etc.) a CCC of 18A for 2.5 mm². In other words, the CCC for 7/0.029 is greater than that for 2.5 mm² by a factor of 10/9 (i.e. 20/18).

On that basis, if the installation method etc. were such that the CCC of 2.5 mm² cable were 27A (i.e. 'Method C', per BS7671), then the corresponding CCC of 7/0.029" cable would presumably be exactly 30A (27A x 10 / 9).

Kind Regards, John
 
It does - so goodness knows what the truth is?!

As you will realise, the reason why I looked at the other one was that it presented corresponding figures for metric cables - and those (metric) CCCs were so low (by modern standards) that I assumed that everything being presented (imperial and metric) related to some pretty 'de-rating' installation method!

Kind Regards, John
 
All I can find give its CCC as from 20A to 23A although it is equivalent to 2.9mm².

Would that be because it is stranded? Perhaps a reason for making solid cored conductors.
The conductors of a stranded cable have a much higher surface area than a solid core

The circumference of a 2.5mm² solid conductor is 5.6mm
The total circumference of 7 x 0.357mm² conductors is 14.8mm
 

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