I don't think anybody has mentioned this, but if as some of you have suggested that rising damp does not exsist, then pray explain to me why the ends of floor joists at ground floor level regularly succomb to decay by wet and dry rot fungus.
The fact that you say, "pray explain", (and rather pompously so), means that you've probably missed the point of my topic.anobium said:I don't think anybody has mentioned this, but if as some of you have suggested that rising damp does not exsist, then pray explain to me why the ends of floor joists at ground floor level regularly succomb to decay by wet and dry rot fungus.
Softus said:The fact that you say, "pray explain", (and rather pompously so), means that you've probably missed the point of my topic.anobium said:I don't think anybody has mentioned this, but if as some of you have suggested that rising damp does not exsist, then pray explain to me why the ends of floor joists at ground floor level regularly succomb to decay by wet and dry rot fungus.
My point was to assert, as a postulate, that RD does not exist, in the hope that people with genuine experience of it could post accurate information. However, to date (from memory though, and I can't be a*rsed to check tonight), only one forum member has managed to achieve this, and even he was, in hindsight, unsure.
It's not my responsibility to explain away your damp problems - it's for you to explain how rising damp has occurred and how you've reached that conclusion after exploring and eliminating all other possible causes of the damp. If you don't want to do that, then continuing to post on this topic in the manner that you've used so far would be a topic hijacking, which is against the forum rules.
Notwithstanding all that, to answer your other questions, because I'm a helpful soul (most of the time)...
Dry rot is relatively rate. If indeed you do have it, you may find it useful to learn that it carries its own water supply from remote sources, so it's more likely than not that any fresh tendrils you find are not near the source of the damp.
Regarding wet rot, my very sketchy experience of this is that it occurs in conditions of high humidity and poor ventilation. If you correct one or both of those conditions then I would expect you to find that the problem subsides. You may need to treat infected wood with a chemical anti-fungal treatment though.
Please don't be - I took no exception, I merely pointed out that your post wasn't in the spirit of the topic. You are merely one in an increasingly long line of posters who are prepared to theorise but are not prepared to explain or justify.anobium said:Firstly I am sorry that you took exception to my phrase "pray explain".
OK. Well you failed to show that it exists, probably because you didn't explain how it occured in your scenario.anobium said:I was merely trying to point out a situation where fungal decay can occur in timbers which are not exposed to the elements, leaking water pipes, high ground levels, etc, etc, and to try and show that rising damp does exist.
Your first statement makes the second two statements irrelevant.anobium said:With regard to the statement re dry rot, I agree with you when you say that it has the ability to transmit moisture to other timbers. However this only occurs when the decay and mycelial growth is established, via the rizamorphs . Dry rot starts when the spores of the fungus germinate on timbers which have the required moisture content.
I'm curious about this - why can it be so?anobium said:This moisture content can be as a result of rising damp.
It's enough for me that the example was hypothetical; this topic is not about hypothesis - I asked for practical and real examples.anobium said:With regard to wet rot, the hypothetical example I pointed out to you was timbers which were built into the wall and were the under floor ventilation and humidity were at acceptable levels.
On this topic, I have not said the thing that you claim to agree with.anobium said:I totally agree that the majority of damp problems are incorrectly diagnosed as rising damp,either as a result ignorance or as an attempt to profit by disreputable contractors.
Fine - do you have a real example of having carried out this test?anobium said:Despite everything I have read it is possible to determine if rising damp is present, ( after eliminating all other possible causes, falling ,penetrating, condensation, burst pipes,) by carrying out calcium carbide gradient tests.
Er, OK thenanobium said:I also include in these tests the analysis required to eliminate the moisture due to the salt content. The only problem with these tests are that they are time consuming and destructive and that is why they are not used by the majority of the advisors/surveyors in the industry.
Hijacking, per se, is automatically against the rules of this forum. I didn't say that you had hijacked it, I said this:anobium said:Could you please also advise me of why you feel I have hijacked the topic against forum rules.
I was not aware that I had done so and if guilty did so unknowingly.
It's not my responsibility to explain away your damp problems - it's for you to explain how rising damp has occurred and how you've reached that conclusion after exploring and eliminating all other possible causes of the damp. If you don't want to do that, then continuing to post on this topic in the manner that you've used so far would be a topic hijacking, which is against the forum rules.
Comprehensive it certainly was, and demeaning it certainly attempted to be, but it comprehensively failed to address the point of this topic.anobium said:Finally my compliments to PatrickD for his comprehensive post on the subject which I agree with in the main.
Nice one markie! Pray explain, sir, why you are a t*sser.markie said:bla bla bla if it's damp it's wet, if it's wet it's damp.
No, you didn't; probably because you didn't attempt to get the point across in any scientific manner - you merely attempted to insist that it exists.anobium said:...clearly I did not get the point across that rising damp exists.
I've never pretended to have more experience than any other houseowner, so I don't know why you thought otherwise. This doesn't mean that you can blind me with science, because I'm a scientist, and a more than averagely open-minded one. One advantage that I have of not working in the damp-proofing or the renovating industries is that I have no axe to grind. Anyone who works as a surveyor or damp-proofer cannot make the same claim to independence.anobium said:I thought that maybe you had had some experience in this field but from some of your responses it would seem not., particularly the dry rot element
So, no "rotting damp" then? Or flooding - doesn't that make a building particularly moist?anobium said:As you are probably aware there are four types of dampness in a building
These come under the headings of , falling damp, penetrating damp, condensation, and rising damp.
Maybe so, but why would I accept that rising damp exists without evidence in support of it?anobium said:Therefore if you accept that rising damp exists , then it is simple matter of a process of elimination to arrive at a cause.
That doesn't tell me much - how many do you "care" to remember? It might be zero for all I know.anobium said:You ask if I have ever been personally involved in the carbide tests referred to including the salt analysis,
The answer is yes, more than I care to remember.
You would only have been surprised if you had a pre-conception of how much you expected to find - not a very scientific approach IMHO.anobium said:What always surprised me though was the amount of moisture in the samples which was due to the salt content.
I don't know if it proves or disproves it. Why don't you explain, for everyone's benefit, why you think it equates to the condition of rising damp, through brickwork?anobium said:If this does not prove the presence of rising damp then pray tell me how you explain the presence of salts, ie chlorides, sulphates, and nitrates 1 metre up in an internal wall.
So now we're getting somewhere. You give an example of a Victorian property. You say that various method were use to cure a rising damp problem, but you haven't said what those methods were or how you determined that the problem was one of rising damp.anobium said:You ask for examples which I have personally been involved with.
Again literally hundreds but one that really comes to mind was a very large victorian property which had been subject to various methods to cure the rising damp problem, including silicone injection and electro osmosis.
Mm, hmm. So, what was the wall contruction and the wall covering, both inside and outside?anobium said:The effects of our attempts to effect a cure were dramatic in respect of the drying out process, and the method that was used was by inserting a conventional dpc.
Please do.anobium said:I could go on and on...
Quite the contrary - I'm waiting for you to demonstrate that you diagnosed rising damp, and then implemented a remedy and were able to show that the actions you took were the sole cause of the reduction in damp.anobium said:...but I suspect that you made up your mind on this matter some time ago...
You may indeed suggest it, but does this mean that you don't consider yourself capable of documenting an independant analysis of your findings?anobium said:...but may I suggest that you get a copy of the BRE Digest 245 and read the opinions of an independent body.
This is more like it - I can't help but wonder why you didn't mention this in your very first post on the topic, or right at the top of your last post.anobium said:If you want to see a really good example of rising damp next time you are in york visit the minster and see the base of the columns and the works done to rectify the problem.
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